How to Get Great Guest Reviews | with Adele Gutman

The Modern Hotelier - Episode #15 === Adele Gutman: If you are on the ground on a property, you should be listening in context to every single criticism. Or a bit of negative feedback. One person who said something represents a dozen people who had that happen to them, but didn't say anything. They just didn't come back. That feedback is a gift. Welcome to the, The Modern Hotelier you're presented by Stayflexi. I'm your host, David Millili. Steve Caran: And I'm Steve Carran. David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program? Steve Caran: Yeah, David, I'm excited for today's episode. We have on Adele Guttman, Adele was the vice president of the library hotel collection, which was a small chain that raised the bar and achieved the number one highest guest satisfaction rating out of any luxury brand in the world. It actually received a 9.6 global review index. Uh, a survey of over 2.7 million annual online reviews. Adele has been honored as one of the top five or top 25 extraordinary minds in sales and marketing and revenue by hospitality, sales, and marketing association, international for achieving exceptional results. Driving revenue through the guest experience by revenue Optimization. And this year, she was also listed as one of the top, most powerful people in us, hospitality by IHI, alongside us, David, uh, and now Adele's a hundred percent dedicated and available to help Hotelier and all of their service industries implement the award-winning five star review system that she developed over a decade in hospitality. Adele is also the host of the hospitality reputation, marketing podcast. Get great reviews. Welcome to the show. Adele. Adele Gutman: Thank you so much, Steve. And you know, last year I called the podcast, the hospitality reputation, marketing podcast get great reviews, but this year I have a new podcast and I did it the opposite way. Get great reviews is the main name. I just think it's easier for people to find it looking for great, get great guest reviews. So I made a little shift, but if you wanted to follow me, it's good to watch. Uh,why not watch last year's podcasts and this year's podcast episodes. There's a lot of good information there. Thank you so much for that amazing introduction. David Millili: yeah, it was a good, good job, Steve. Steve Caran: you are welcome. You are Adele Gutman: good job. David Millili: We're gonna go through three portions of the podcast. We're gonna get to know you a little bit better. We're gonna surprise you a little bit. We're gonna talk about your career and then we are gonna get into some industry insights. So here Adele Gutman: Okay. David Millili: What was your first job ever? Adele Gutman: My first job, my first job was as a dance teacher. when I was a younger teenager, I was an assistant teacher, teaching little girls, ballet, tap jazz. And then when I was between high school and college, I took a gap year and I taught ballroom dancing, Latin dancing country, dancing disco at a Fred of stair in Houston, Texas. David Millili: Wow. So I think I know the answer to the next question. If you're not in hospitality, what would you be doing? Adele Gutman: Absolutely. Right. And I, I am doing it here now that I'm living at, um, I'm living at a 55 plus community. So I've started all of these, dance fitness programs here. David Millili: That's great. Adele Gutman: I really wanna answer, what was my first job in hospitality? Because I was a, an account executive, in the quality in Greenway Plaza in Houston, Texas. So I had a very humble beginning that I started out because, I think it was John Bowen, who was my professor at the time at the Hilton college for hotel and restaurant management. I think I was maybe 20 years old. And he says, do you wanna get your work experience actually doing sales instead of, cocktail waitressing, like most people were doing or were at the front desk? And absolutely. Yes. So that was a great experience, did you admire someone growing up? I was introduced to the hospitality sales and marketing association when I was 18 years old. And I went to my first, conference, which was in Dallas, Texas, and I did a sales blitz. I think Hank Walpert was the director of sales and marketing at the Sheraton in Dallas and invited us to do a sales blitz. And I would say that I was so amazed and impressed by all the people in that Texas chapter of HS may I looked up to them and they were incredible mentors for me when I was younger. I learned probably more from them than I did from my actual employers. I don't know what I would've done starting out to be honest with you. If I hadn't been introduced to a S M a I so soon, it's such a wealth of information and mentorship, and I just really encourage everybody to participate and take advantage of that. David Millili: That's good advice. There was one person who would you switch places with for a day? You can switch places with any person who's alive right now, Adele Gutman: Oh, wow. you know what I, I, I have to say, because we were talking behind the scenes about Sarah time, did she? And I think everybody wants to be more like Sarah and have her awesome life and just be that amazing. Yes. and 30 years younger and that would be really cool for a day. David Millili: That's a good answer. you're the first one who's picked somebody who's already been on the podcast, so that's great. give us something that's on your bucket list. Something that you, you really want to do. Adele Gutman: Oh,there are places I have not traveled to yet. I, I would, I love Africa so much and I really believe that the most incredible hospitality experiences I've ever had have been in Africa. And I'd like to explore more of the continent, but Kenya and Tanzania, amazing. The people there sparkled, sunshine all over us. I mean, they were beaming love from their eyes, from their body language and they, they would sing and dance for us and make incredible foods and they just. Thrived on our joy of the experience. And I love that. I think that the hospitality industry really needs to tap into that more. And, that's part of my mission, but I'd love to experience more of that. David Millili: What scares you? Adele Gutman: first of all, I just recently moved to South Carolina and there are alligators and snakes here. So I have to like really say that, but what really scares me more than anything. I had bells palsy twice on this side of my face, on this side of my face. It took me years to almost recover on this side of my face. And I am more scared of bells palsy than I am of COVID. so, part of my new lifestyle is, you know, taking care of myself, not stressing so much and just doing what I love so that I can do it for longer. David Millili: What's something that you wish you were better. Adele Gutman: oh, writing, I consider myself a Hotelier and in my job, I would basically a communicator the entire time, how I speak, how I persuade people, how I write the copy on the website, The nuance between being really honest and also gracious and appealing at the same time. a lot of people are very afraid to be honest on their website about what their services offers, because they think that they need to sell it. and actually that's a good way of attracting the wrong kind of customer. That's not really meant to be at your hotel. And, and then having unhappy experiences. I struggle, writing the blog, writing the podcast, writing everything. I mean, I'm writing a book right now. I'm putting together a, a little course about how to get great reviews and, I just wish it was easier. I wish it just the thoughts and the concept flow from me. David Millili: sure. Adele Gutman: But not the writing David Millili: Yeah. Same. Same with me. Have we got the same thing? All right. So if you could pick one superpower, what superpower would that be? Adele Gutman: oh, easy. I've thought about this a hundred times. Uh, my parents speak so many languages and my brother and I were not born in this country and we only speak English because when my parents came in 1963 with us, they just wanted us to be perfect little American kids. And that's what we are. I wanna speak all the languages especially to travel around the world, but to be able to speak with the people you work with and their native language, and your guests and their native language, ah, would be just the best thing David Millili: great answer. All right. So now this is the surprise part of, the podcast early on. We like to sneak some things in, so we are gonna play a quick final round of family feud. we're gonna ask you three questions. If you get the number one answer, and for each question, we'll donate a hundred dollars to the charity of your choice. it's, you know, you got a little bit writing on that, so I'm gonna ask you, Steve's gonna give us a 22nd. Countdown and just do the best you can ready. Adele Gutman: Okay. Sounds good. David Millili: something. You'd find in a breakfast buffet Adele Gutman: Yoga. So that's not gonna be the first answer. Can I, can I, can I, can I, I just realize that David Millili: name a common candy bar, component, Adele Gutman: caramel David Millili: name something. A person might keep in a seller. Adele Gutman: wine David Millili: Good answer. Adele Gutman: and lots of wine. David Millili: Oh, Steve Caran: Good answers. David Millili: so, all right, so here we go. So name something you find in a breakfast buffet. Steve, what was the answer? Again? Was eggs. Eggs is number one, answer 25% of people selected that. Let's go to the next one, which is name a common candy bar component. Steve Caran: Caramel David Millili: That was the third number one answer was chocolate. Adele Gutman: Chocolate. I David Millili: Yeah. Adele Gutman: said should have said chocolate. David Millili: And then I I'll, I, this was, uh, soon enough. And plus I'll remember this one, cuz it's what I drink a lot of, but name something, a person might keep in a seller and Adele answered wine. That was the number one, answer 54%. actually four people surveyed said dead bodies. So just so that you know that that's that's on there. So I was surprised when I looked up. So what, what we'll do is we'll get the charity, we'll donate $50 to a charity of your choice afterwards, but we like to work that in there and David Millili: have some Adele Gutman: Thank you. Thank you. You know what? To be honest, when I think back on it, chocolate is so ubiquitous to a candy bar that you think that my thought was, what else would go inside the chocolate with the chocolate, but you're right. Yes. Sometimes we don't notice the most obvious thing. David Millili: yeah, it was close chocolate peanut to then caramel. So you were right, right there in the ballpark. Steve Caran: That was, yeah. You're right on board. Adele Gutman: there's hardly anything that you can come up in the five star fancy restaurant. That's better than a Snickers bar. I'm sorry. That's just the way it, Steve Caran: agree. agree. Awesome. So, no, now we're gonna move on to kind of a little bit more about your background, a little bit more, you know, where you came from and things like that. So where were you born and, and how, where did you grow up? How did that, how did that shape you? I was born in, uh, Israel. My parents were Holocaust children, so they were in what is now Ukraine. That's where they are originally from. my mother was born in Poland and my father was born in Russia. But if you went there now, both of those places would be in Ukraine. Adele Gutman: And actually my, my house is full of paintings that my grandmother painted. Some of them remember how they were talking on the news about the Mario pole steel plant. Steve Caran: Mm-hmm Adele Gutman: Some of them were painted in that Mario pole steel plant when she worked there, in the dentist office and in between having patients that were the workers there, she painted. So anyway, that's where that's, that's my history, my little international history. Steve Caran: And then where did you grow up when you moved to the Adele Gutman: So we, we went to Brooklyn, Queens, long island, New York, and Jewish, you know, that whole area. And then from 16 to 26, I lived in Texas, which I I credit those 10 years in Texas for, maybe finding a sweeter side of hospitality because I became exposed to,that Southern hospitality, Texas hospitality, and, and, and when. We would write a letter in Texas at a hotel to a customer. It would be all hearts and flowers and sunshine. And then I came to New York. I moved back to New York when I was 26, 27. And I would look at letters to, to guests and say, you speak to your guests like this. You will do, you know, give us the deposit by this day. If you don't give us a rooming list by this date, you will da, da da. That's the tone. And I knew that there was something wrong and I think that's a lot of, um,where my philosophy came from and why it was so easy for me to see where we could be doing better. And that instinct, kind of guided me,in the get great guest reviews, campaign. Steve Caran: Yeah. It's kind of been there since the beginning almost. And you've just been building on it since 26 years old. It looks like, so what kind of dance you majored in dance at kinder high school? what type of dance did you major in? Adele Gutman: yeah, it was, the, high school for performing in visual arts. I, I think they adopted the other name, maybe a sponsor or something later on in life. But when I was there, it was a high school for, performing in visual arts and we did, ballet and modern, for hours and hours and hours all the time. and then on, especially like. Three hours, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then in the middle of the week, we might do something special, some kind of character dancing, something you were a little bit different and unique to build our, but mostly our it's all about the ballet. and we also did things like dance, journalism, or dance photography, so that people could explore their passion, even if they weren't gonna have a career in dance. Adele Gutman: and when I decided to take a year off between high school and college and teach ballroom dancing at the Freda, I realized after that year, that really dancing was not going to be a lucrative career for me as much as I loved it. and I thought, what could I do that is. You know, a business, but still related. And my mother and I would go to this, spa, which is now called, lake Austin spa and resort in Austin, Texas. But at that time it was called Bermuda and anything. and I just loved that it was all about wellbeing and making the guests have a better life and, you know, relaxation and becoming your best self. And I said, I wanna live in that environment where we're always growing and becoming our best self. so I completely went astray when I went to college and I just was down the regular corporate hotel route. But that thing about continuous improvement, I think that is also something that stayed with me. so, you know, you mentioned HSM a I before. I'm also involved in HS in Colorado here. how did you get involved in now? You you're the chapter president. Is that right? In Adele Gutman: no, I'm not the chapter president anymore. No, no, but I, I, I, Steve Caran: You used to be, Adele Gutman: time that I, that I was there, I was, I was, I, I, I was, I was, but, but, uh, yeah, I'm always there to help. Steve Caran: no, I'm usually pretty out on these things, so that's okay. Adele Gutman: I, I, always volunteer for anything that I can do for HS a I, and I, I judge on the Adrian awards and I just volunteered to help with the, um, rock, conference. And, so I'm, definitely still very much in there. And I was part of the advisory board, Steve Caran: Awesome. And how did you get involved? You got involved in Texas, right with them? Adele Gutman: because my teachers, said to me, you know, Adele, You need to be in hotel sales. And, I was like, who's gonna buy a hotel from me. I'm 18 years old. You want me to knock on doors and talk to secretaries, about hotel sales. That doesn't make any sense. I mean, I don't think secretaries can afford to buy a hotel and I just really didn't understand it at all until I, yeah. So thank, thank goodness. But my college was very active in that at that time. and it made a huge difference Steve Caran: Sure. David Millili: so I've, I've got a question for you and then we'll we can we'll circle back as to why I asked the question, but how many times have you watched Casa Blanca? Adele Gutman: well, like it was on pretty much every day at the Casa Blanca hotel where my office was. So I, but I've dozens of times, dozens of times, I would definitely say it is such a beautiful, and it would make a really good Broadway show. I think they should, David Millili: I'm surprised they haven't. that that seems with, I mean, they've done every Disney movie. I can't believe that something like Casa Blanca wouldn't. Adele Gutman: I know, and it's so great and so relevant. I think,I think it's really important movie and, so many people are not even young people, but even middle aged people have never actually seen the movie and they're just missing out. So maybe we need a redo. Not that it could be better though. David Millili: you know, that's that hotel's close to me, obviously, you know, we, we work together on a lot of stuff, but that hotel's so unique for a New York city. Hotel that, um, I just gotta say that, you know, so it is just for me, whenever I think about that hotel, it's like one of those hotels that was small, but it, it was so big in kind of its presence and the way it felt when you walked in. So two, my Rem Adele Gutman: Thank you so much for that. You, you know, it, it was just a cozy home away from home, a quirky little hotel. It's not the right fit for anybody. So I, you really have to be careful how you sell it to you attract, you know, the right, kind of people that are gonna love that hotel. But as quirky as it was, We had guests that could well afford to stay at the Mandarin Oriental or the four seasons or the peninsula, but chose our little home away from home instead. And year after year, it was number one for three and a half years in a row, one time without a day being in number two. and believe me, it didn't start off that way, but we had a general manager who really believed in sparkling sunshine on the guests and looking for ways to improved and being kind and compassionate. And, uh,we had an amazing run. David Millili: Yeah, it was Steve Caran: I love that. Adele Gutman: you. Steve Caran: I love that. Well, awesome. Now we're gonna kind of get into that area a little bit more about your career, how you got started and where you are today. you cut your teeth as director of sales at, at the Swiss hotel. And then you were the director of sales and marketing at the Fitzpatrick Manhattan motel. What foundations of your career did you learn in those positions? Adele Gutman: You know, I actually started before that in, in Texas, I was a sales manager at the AFAs hotel. but when I, I came back to New York, yes, I, I was with Swiss hotel for three years as director of sales at the property, also director of sales, regionally. So selling all the properties, in the Eastern region. and you know, that was a great experience to have, because I learned how a big hotel is sold and one that has,You know, a bigger company behind it, Swiss air and Nestle. And the decision making process is very different than when the Fitzpatrick Manhattan hotel opened a block away, and I was director of sales there and we had a good idea at 10:00 AM. It was the way we did things at 3:00 PM. I'll never forget that somebody said, you know, when I'm at home, I don't have one shower curtain. I have a liner on the inside and the curtain on the outside. And I was like, yeah, let's GI, can I go, go to the store and buy, um, 60, shower, curtain liners, or a hundred shower curtain liners. Adele Gutman: Yeah, go do it. You know, that's it. That's it. If somebody has a good idea, you just do it that would've taken a year to get approved at a big hotel, but it shouldn't be that way. And it didn't be that way. David Millili: we, discussed a little bit about it with the Casablanca, but the library collection hotels were, were always ranked very, very well. Um, TripAdvisor, how did you latch onto that? You were very, very early, were really paying attention and focusing on what, what made you do that? What made you think that that was gonna be something that was important at the, at the time, when not, not many people were really focused on it. Adele Gutman: Well, I started with, the library hotel collection and Henry Callen, in 2000 the same year, the trip advisor was born and I was still catching on to this whole new fangled website thing. And I wanted to make sure that everybody's description of our hotels was accurate to what it was now, not what it was six months ago or a year from now or before I got there, whatever standards we agreed on, you know, I wanted to make sure it was. Reflected correctly. And so in monitoring our online presence, I started to become aware of reviews, not just on trip advisor, but, Yahoo and, all those other, other places. I'll never forget that. I wrote to Yahoo and said, somebody says that our swimming pool smells like eggs, but we don't have a swimming pool. So can you remove that? And they said, no, we cannot take away, a comment by traveler, even if they didn't stay there. It's crazy. Look at the long way we've come since. then So I was monitoring how the reviews were and I was looking well, who are the people on the top of the page? How did they get there? What did they do? And I remember Sophie tell was on top in those very early days on TripAdvisor all the time. And, I would look at what their comments were and everything, and, and think I wanna tap into that. And then we talked about let's, earn those reviews. And one day our hotel giraffe got into the top page and Ney Syed. You now Sullivan, was general manager at the hotel giraffe at that time. And I went over there and I said, you know, congratulations, it's amazing. How has it been for you? You know, and she said, it's incredible. The phones are ringing off the hook. And if I wake up in the morning and have 15 rooms out of a 72 year hotel by 15 rooms left, I'll have sold them by early afternoon without discounting, because everybody wants to be at a hotel. Even if they've never heard of us before they wanna be at a hotel that is on top of the list. So it's like the angels started singing. There was like a globe behind the leaning. And I said, we've gotta make this, our new marketing strategy. because our budget is zero for marketing, you? I mean, it's not zero because if you went to Henry, who was a true believer from the beginning before social media, he would tell you. if you want to have a very successful hotel financially, make sure Adele that all the guests are really happy. So if they leave, if everybody leaves happy, then they're gonna do the marketing for you. Now, obviously that is a universal truth and there was no, no debating it. So I, I said, absolutely. He said, I want you to come in early every morning for the first year that the library hotel opened. Adele Gutman: And I want you to be there in the, uh, club room, the library lounge where the breakfast is happening in the wine and cheese. And I want you to listen to the guests and what they're saying, smile at them, say, how is your stay and get their feedback and see if you can take care of something right there and see if there's something we need to take care of that we could do differently to make sure we have. Now, this is before. Social media, that he said that to me. And before we knew of TripAdvisor or any of those other places that people would leave, guest reviews. So when NA said, it's incredible. I said, well, this is up to our belief system. These are our values. This is our marketing strategy already, but we were talking about word of mouth. Now we're talking about E word of mouth. So I gathered all the directors of sales, all the general managers, the reservations, the front office managers get in the little room at the Casa Blanca hotel. And I thought before the meeting said, I really need everybody to get on board with this. I've got to get everybody on board with this. And, you know, they say that If you make the team feel like the idea is coming from them and they have buy-in, then it'll happen better than if you just tell them that that's what you're gonna do. And I heard people saying that I read it in a book somewhere or whatever. Thank goodness. I heard that somewhere because I don't think I was actually like taught that per se. We should be taught that in college, this is the, like the most important thing. And I said, well, you know, I know that you guys are the nicest people ever. I know that there are a lot of fancy hotels in New York, but there isn't any place that has sweeter nicer or kind of people than we have. So I know you guys are all experts at making people happy. And I know this cuz I see you get a lot of fantastic five star reviews, so like you're already doing it, but how can we kick it up a notch? How are we going to just crush all those negative reviews and just triple up on those positive reviews? I think that if there anybody can do. This team can do it. And everybody went, yeah. And let's do it. We can be number one, we're gonna be number one. David Millili: And you were, Adele Gutman: And then Henry Callen walked in the other, like, what are you all talking about? Oh, we're just talking about how, you know, we're gonna make sure that, you know, we fix our problems and we listen to our guests and we are gonna make sure every single guest leaves happy, and that's the way we're gonna get more business. And he goes, of course do what she said. And he left the room. David Millili: that's funny. Adele Gutman: so the thing is that, you know, and I think in most hotels today, they'll say, oh, you know, that's for other people, cuz I've heard people tell me that that's what their general manager or their owner said that's for other hotels that's for those posh hotels. I mean, we had so much more posh hotels around us to compete with, but we did it. Based on, if you appreciate that every single person on your team really has a lot of inherent knowledge about what is making the guest unhappy and also they know those little secrets that just light people. up Like, you know, they've seen everybody, I want you to go back to your offices and write down a list of all the things that each of you do that when you say this, or when you do that, it always, you can see their faces just light up. Let's share all that and make sure everybody's doing it. And when you see somebody's face, fall, With the little disappointing was like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. I wasn't that I, I, I, is that, is that on page 63 of the website or the brochure somewhere? I, nobody told me about it. Let's think about, well, how can we communicate that better? So that they'll definitely know before they come exactly what to expect. So there are no unwelcome surprises. They're prepared. Steve Caran: Awesome. Awesome. would you say you used the sparkling sunshine method. For, for those that don't know about the Adele Gutman: call Steve Caran: sunshine method, would you like to tell people what that method is? Adele Gutman: Well, I use the acronym care. You want your guest to feel. Cared for appreciated and respected at every encounter. So every time you are looking at a guest face to face, you want your eyes to be pouring out warmth to them and welcome to them. It's not just, you know, have you ever walked into a hotel where they said welcome to the da, da da name please. Or you know what, to be honest with you. I don't remember the last time that somebody told me welcome to the hotel. I don't remember so much the time that somebody said we hope to see you again soon. That's just like the minimum. You know what we have to throw away this concept that hospitality people should be polite and professional. We should be far beyond that. That is the lowest possible bar. We should be warm, welcoming, caring, thoughtful. I have this little sticker that Sarah Donda, she gave me that says be thoughtful. I have it right here on my computer, Sarah, if you're listening but we, we, we should take that time to make sure that they feel heard. I'll tell you. Can I tell a quick story? Okay. I was on a flight on one airline. I'm not gonna name the airlines because that's just mean right now. So I'm on one airline. I. Hi, you know, I'm a vegetarian, this was the days thing when they, they had meals. , I'm a vegetarian, is there any chance that you have any vegetarian meals left? And that flight attendants said no and continued to move down the aisle. And then the other airline, I said, oh, you know, I'm a vegetarian. And Is there any chance that I could get, oh, we would love to give you a vegetarian meal, but you know what? We order only as many as we're ordered. And so, we can't do it this time, but when you're leaving, be sure to talk to one of the agents at the desk and tell them that you wanted for the way back, because we'd love to be able to get your, your vegetarian meal next time. No question about it. She made me feel great, even though she was still saying, no, she has what Christine trippy would call. Yes. Steve Caran: Absolutely. Absolutely. And just that positive attitude too. It's like, so when you ask for something to be met with that positive attitude, like, Hey, maybe we can't do it, but next time we'll definitely get it right for you. And instead of being like, oh no, I'm sorry. Adele Gutman: Yeah. Steve Caran: do that. Attitude plays such a bigger role in that. Adele Gutman: Yeah, the other person made me feel terrible, you know? and sadly we are, we're in a situation right now where hospitality and airline people are in a very sad place. There's a lot of pain in our industry. And we can only alleviate that by first of all, I mean, showing, teaching people how to handle things graciously, but also if you're having the same comment over and over and over again, that causes a dispute at the front desk every day, day in and day out I assure you. I could name them, but I don't think we have time to get into it, but you, if you ask your, team put together a list of the five or 10 most common complaints, what you're dealing with every single day, and instead of telling them how to handle the problem, why not fix the problem at the root and see what you could do before the guest ever comes to the front desk to ask that question, because you've already told them on your website and you've explained it in a really good, gracious way, exactly what you have and you don't have on your social media, in your photo galleries, in the confirmation email, in the pre-stay email everywhere. it's been so communicated. That they know exactly what they're gonna get when they're, and it, there are no unpleasant surprises. We're just not solving problems. the ownership and, top management don't even wanna look at the reviews to see what those problems are because the front desk is handling it, but that's a great deal of pain that goes with that. Help them Steve Caran: Yeah. Adele Gutman: not have the issue. Come back again. And it's not that hard actually. And you don't even have to know the answers. You ask your team, the answers. They almost always, with the right encouragement and asking the right questions will come up with the answers themselves. Steve Caran: They're on the ground every day. Right? So, so they're the ones interacting with those guests. So great points, great points. So now we're gonna move into the last section where, you know, we just wanna get your thoughts on the industry, you know, trends, you know, what we could be doing better, things like that. What advice would you give to somebody who's either, you know, just starting out in hospitality and, and maybe they do have goals to be an influencer like yourself who has their own podcast and website and all that stuff. What advice would you give to somebody who's looking to do that? Adele Gutman: Oh, gosh, I, I, I, I, you know why it's really hard for me because like I said before, I speak because it's the only way I can tell people that there's a better way. I mean, we had the highest guest satisfaction in the world, Steve Caran: Yeah. Adele Gutman: this little, hotel group with adorable, lovely hotels, but not the most opulent, our people weren't made of magic. They were like your people only, they were encouraged to be kind, always be compassionate, always make the fit and they got addicted. They got addicted to that feeling of, we're number one, you know, we're we had the number one, number two, number three, and number four hotels in a row on trip advisor in 2010. And in 2020, it was still 1, 2, 3, and it's number 17, not too bad out of 500 something hotels Steve Caran: It sounds like they got that winner's mentality. Like they were number one and kept being number 1, 2, 3, and then they're like, we're not gonna let this slip, like we're gonna keep being number one. Adele Gutman: You know, it wasn't the number. They were gonna be doing what they were doing, no matter what. They were listening to the people and thinking if I can make something happen for them, I'm gonna do it. I'm I'm always gonna go the extra mile. because I like being a hospitality hero. I like knowing that I made somebody stay incredible. I know that I made this family feel like our family and there is such an incredible power to that. And Hoteliers are not tapping into it, but most of all they don't wanna look. They don't wanna look what the negative comments are. And you remember when your dentist would have a poster that said, you don't have to floss all your teeth. Just the ones you wanna keep. It's the same with reviews. You don't have to read all your negative reviews, just the ones you don't wanna have anymore. You know, if you wanna stop having the negative reviews about the cleanliness of the hotel or the surliness of, the wait staff go over to the wait staff and say, Hey, I know that you guys are great people and I know you wanna do the right thing. What's the struggle. What is your, what are your challenges? I know you wanna make people happy. How can I support you? In that, and they will boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. They will tell you exactly what's going wrong and why it's so challenging because they have to go to a different floor to get one thing. And then three stores down, uh,floors down to get another thing. And they're always out of, supplies of this, that, or the other, and they need another,micro station over, at a closer point to where the guests are actually. So they don't have to leave the guests to go there. I mean, they'll tell you what the problems are. Your staff should not be crying in the bathroom or in their car, in the parking lot. They should feel cared for appreciated and respected and listened to. And then, I mean, you're talking with your collaborating with your team Steve Caran: Yeah. David Millili: what technologies do you think hotels should be using that will help the guest experience, help drive revenue on property? Is there anything that you've seen or you think that aren't leveraging when it comes to the technology side of things that they should. Adele Gutman: I think any technology that your team will use is good and sometimes we bought things that the staff really didn't use. They didn't mind doing it the other way, because especially if it was. In the smaller hotels would be different from a bigger hotel and the smaller hotels say, I don't really need, I like having the reporting from review pro or something like that. That, that tells me, alerts me when there are negative reviews and, and keeps things organized. But in the bigger hotel, like in a hotel like Toronto, they would have maybe 125 reviews in a week. So you couldn't possibly function without having something, you know, like revenue or, something else. But I mean, there are so many great programs, that will help you mine the reviews, but also just listen to your customers, but listening to your customers or having any of those programs is not gonna do you a lick of good. If you're not. Actually taking the information to solve a problem. And people have a, belief that you can quarterly every other month, something like that. look at a semantic analysis and from that determine what needs to be done. That's okay. If you are in the corporate office and you have a hundred hotels and you're looking for some big picture items from that view, but if you are on the ground on a property, you should be listening in context to every single criticism. Or a bit of negative feedback. So that one person who said something represents a dozen people who had that happen to them, but didn't say anything. They just didn't come back. That feedback is a gift. And a lot of things don't take money to fix. They just take creativity and innovation. And if you say, Hey team, here's the problem. Adele Gutman: How do you think we could, we could do this differently to not have this problem happen anymore. It, you know, if we could go back in time, this is my, one of my favorite questions to ask. If you could go back in time, knowing that that guest was gonna walk in the door and have this problem, what would you do ahead of time before she ever walked in? And that is so illuminating because. You'll realize that a lot of times it's communication. A lot of times, if you know, somebody's handling something at the front desk and they're trying to control the situation by defending the hotel. But if they instead approach the guest, as you know, those security things are, are, are really there for your own protection, but don't worry. I'm here with you and I'm gonna be your ambassador to happiness and get you over that little hurdle. So you can get on with the rest of your day. It's not gonna be that hard. Let's just, you know, do a, B and C and we'll be on our way to a great time. And I'm gonna do something a little sweet to add a little happiness to your day. To help you get over it and, and get onto the next thing. If we just think of ourselves as ambassadors to happiness, rather than defenders of the hotel, you know, sometimes we think about P make policies and, the reason for those policies don't exist anymore because of technology . So sometimes we have to reevaluate what we're doing. Steve Caran: And, and you do have a, a five star review system. what is, you know, kind of that first step hotels, the really need to take to get that Fivestar review? Is it the mindset that you were just were talking about as an ambassador or, or is it, more communication? What is that first step? That, to really get that five step four or five star. Adele Gutman: Well, you know, I think that, start with why Simon Sinek had it. Absolutely. Right. And so did many, many, many other people, but they said it in a different way. you have to have a vision of what you want to be known for that's reputation, there's a phrase. you wanna have a good endeavor to be what you wanna be known for. And, um, that means if you wanna get five star reviews, write down. In detail, the kind of dream review you wanna have ask every single person on your team to write down that dream review that they want people to have. And then think about how I'm going to be that Hotelier that inspires that review because until you be that Hotelier, that inspires that review, those reviews are gonna happen just by chance. And on occasion, when you decided to spark a little, little sunshine on one person and forgot about the rest of the people But if you remember that every single person who walks in your door is a potential customer for life, that's gonna attract like a magnet, new people to come and stay with. You you'll realize that we've spent so much money to attract that customer. Let's keep. Let's have fun. You know, we have to be here for eight hours. Who am I kidding? We're not for there for eight hours. We have to be there for eight hours. let's have fun and see how happy we can make our guests. David Millili: there's been a lot, obviously going on COVID labor shortages. What do you think outside of those two things? what do you think is the biggest challenge facing, facing the industry right now, outside of COVID and, and labor shortages, as we've now kind of somewhat getting back to normal Adele Gutman: Outside of labor shortages and COVID well, those are, definitely the biggest too, I, I think it's just the mindset That hospitality people have to work 70 hours a week. That the way we've always done things is the way we have to do things in the future. And it shouldn't be like you shouldn't have the unionize to, to get treated well, you should, you should be treated with care and appreciation and respect every day. Not just because it's the right thing to do, but it's also more profitable because, you know, Sally Beck, who is the general manager of the Royal Lancaster in London, she's one of my favorite people to talk. about She took her hotel, slowly from number 272 on trip advisor in the UK, uh,in London to number three in the entire United Kingdom on trip advisor. And she said, I wanted this to be the happiest place on earth. And the only way I can have the happiest staff, not because it's my concern to make them happy. It's my concern to alleviate their, pain points and to give them the support they need to clear away the things that are blocking them from success. But if they are happy to make others happy, I'm going to help them do it. I'm going to give them the tools that they need. And sometimes those are technology tools, but sometimes. they're skill tools, sometimes their mindset tools, and sometimes it's just preventing fear from being in the building. having that emotional safety that people are talking about, where everybody can speak their minds. And I think that this work of the getting great reviews and the creating a culture of caring collaboration and continuous improvement is deeply tied in with the whole diversity equity, discussion and inclusion, because we want a hundred percent of our team giving their full intellect, their full creativity, their full potential. Adele Gutman: They have so much potential to grow, but they can't grow if they're not included in the conversation of how we can make things better every day. but when they are, and they can see how problem solving works, they become their full potential. And they can take pride that came up with some of the ideas David Millili: the only thing I would add to that is I just, I wish we just, you know, not only you've covered on treating employees and staff, but I wish we would just pay them better because, going back when I was GM thinking about what some of the people were making, even what I was making, but knowing what the profits were for the property , it was kind of a really wasn't balance. And I think that's one of the things we'll have to do because, you know, with these housekeepers in New York that they unionize because, you know, there's some things I, I. You know, I'm not a big pro-union guy, but there's things that, it just kind of gets them to this livable wage where it's not good for the hotel, but the hotel could have got there probably other ways through profit sharing or other things that make them feel. And I think it would just be great if we could become also an industry where we pay people a decent, they want to be employed. They want to come work for hotels, rather than other industries, but that's my 2 cents. So, Adele Gutman: You know, if you, if you treat people fairly, they don't need to form anything. So, I think so why create an us against them issue when it can be us growing together issue and us growing together is, is so important, but when skiff, reported I'm estimating care, but they, they showed several, CEOs making, you know, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600 and more, times what their average, not their lowest worker, but their average employee makes,it's not that you would say, well, I mean, they deserve it, right? They, they run a whole big company, but at the end of the day, they're still working the same hours as the chef in the kitchen. And you can't live without that, that chef, you cannot make, you need them. and they deserve fair too. And really like, does anybody really need to make more than, you know, 2 million a year or 5 million a year? Whatever it is like you don't, it's crazy. It's, is your life really that much better. But imagine if you brought everybody up with you, there's gotta be a way, I don't know what the math is on it, but there's gotta be a way. Steve Caran: one question you're on the forefront of like trip advisor and reviews and things like that. Now we have this whole new technology coming with the metaverse and web three and things like that, any ideas on how that's gonna change hospitality at all? Adele Gutman: Wow. I don't know. I mean, it just seems like really far out there. Why would anybody wanna make a hotel in the ? I just wanna be there. I mean, I, I, I can't even imagine why that would be interesting, so I really couldn't say, I think that what we really need now is to put our feet in real sand and real grass and be surrounded by trees and animals. I think everybody needs to go to safari in Africa. Like, as I was saying before, I think we need to really get around people again. And I don't see the appeal. I. Steve Caran: Hey, Adele Gutman: I'm not com I'm not saying that you shouldn't, I'm just saying that I think what the world needs is more nature and more, David Millili: Good answer. Well, this is the part, where we wrap it up. We give you the opportunity to let everyone know how they can find you. so plug away Adele, and then I will wrap this thing up. Adele Gutman: you know, there are a lot of people who will give you advice about how to do reputation management, but reputation management, the way I think most people understand it is responding online to complaints with meaningless, Words that really don't show anything about what you're gonna do, how you've listened to it, exactly what you're gonna do to change it and inviting them, to see what you've done, to change things, inviting them into your mind, to see what changed, thanks to this person, sharing their insights with you. That's what people really want. I don't talk about that kind of reputation management. I talk about reputation, cultivation. a lot of people give advice and they have never taken a hotel to number one in their city. Number one in their state, number one in their country. Number one in the. I have done all those things. And so what I'm telling you really works and I give it all away for free on my podcast, on my LinkedIn newsletter, sign up on my website adelegutman.com. I give it all away for free, but if you want somebody to actually be your ambassador to happiness, making it easier for you to actually implement those concepts, you know, I'm really there to be, helpful to any Hotelier that needs that help. just follow the story of brick by brick. We unravel all the different things that you need to do. And believe me, if I could do it, anybody can do it, but you need to have an owner that supports the concept, but I guarantee you. If you make us happy and they write great reviews and they come back again and again, and they bring their friends with them. Adele Gutman: You will have a successful business and you will feel it in your bottom line and your staff will feel pride and stay because they feel that you appreciate, their full potential and they're growing and learning the whole time. It is a wonderful thing. so hop aboard the reputation cultivation train. Steve Caran: I David Millili: that's, great advice we enjoyed having you that does it for the, The Modern Hotelier presented by Stayflexi.