Cannabis in Travel & Hospitality: Understanding Opportunities and Challenges for Hotels | with Brian Applegarth

The Modern Hotelier #41: Cannabis in Travel & Hospitality: Understanding Opportunities and Challenges for Hotels | with Brian Applegarth === Brian Applegarth: [00:00:00] as a destination, if you're not making people aware of what exists in your destination, you're missing, I would argue, a really important younger demographic that has a very different relationship with cannabis than the stigma of older generations.​ David Millili: Welcome to The. Modern Hotelier. I'm your host, David Mullooly. Steve Carran: I'm your co-host, Steve Karen. Jon Bumhoffer: And I'm the producer, John Bumhoffer. David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran: Yeah, David. Today we have I'm Brian Applegarth. Brian is a cannabis hemp travel and tourism pioneer. Brian is a founder of the Cannabis Train and the Cannabis Travel Association International. He also leads the cannabis and hemp work for groups of Destination International and the California Travel Association.[00:02:00] Most recently, Brian started Apple Garth Consultive Services to help destination organizations navigate the cannabis hemp and C B D travel trends. Welcome to the show, Brian. Brian Applegarth: Hey Steve, great to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. Steve Carran: You bet. David Millili: So Brian, we're gonna take you through three sections. We're gonna ask you some personal questions, a little lightning round and, and get to know you better. We're then gonna dive into your career, and then we're gonna ask you some topics on cannabis in the travel industry as a whole. Sound good? Brian Applegarth: Sounds great. Let's do it. David Millili: All right, here we go. So, what was the worst job that you ever had? Brian Applegarth: The worst job I ever had, I'll tell you, it was working in a cubicle for me. It when I was living in Nashville, Tennessee for a brief stint. I was working part-time in the music industry and aspiring songwriter. I had an eBay business, but the other business I was involved with was, I was an employee of, kind of an electrical parts company that was headquartered in Nashville. And just a lot of. commitment and control [00:03:00] that I never really took to. So that was like, that became clear to me at that young age that I was gonna have to be kind of creative with a different path, to not be in that situation anymore. So, a little bit soul sucking, but I I made my escape so David Millili: Makes sense. Are you a morning or a night person? Brian Applegarth: morning. Yeah, totally morning, early morning, actually. in bed pretty early in the evenings. love the quiet mornings and sunrise and just the energy of a morning. David Millili: So if you had to delete all the apps on your phone except for three, what three apps would you keep on your phone? Brian Applegarth: What three apps would I keep on my phone? Let's see here. I, I mean, truth, truth be told, I'm like, I'm not exactly tech savvy. probably LinkedIn would be one. That's kind of my primary channel for communicating my work and keeping in touch with my audience. the second one would be my calculator. Right. David Millili: I can relate to that. Brian Applegarth: Yeah. and I'd say the third one would be Pandora, probably. and just a [00:04:00] fourth one I'll throw out there is the Ganji app, which is a, the Ganji is a cannabis sommelier, that now exists a lot of people aren't aware of. So those would probably be the four that would remain on my phone. Steve Carran: Awesome. David Millili: We'll, we'll give you the fourth one. What's your most used emoji? Brian Applegarth: Blue Heart? David Millili: Ah, Brian Applegarth: Yeah. Blue Heart. Yep. Steve Carran: Why the blue one? Brian Applegarth: I don't know, I just started using that one and I just kind of stuck with it and it's one of those quick responses that feels like it's always a nice communication that's accurate. David Millili: if you could have one song to listen to your favorite song, what would that song be? Brian Applegarth: Ooh, one song, I mean, of late, like, I love lots, many, many kinds of music. I'd say Vincent Starry, starry Night is one of my favorite songs as a songwriter. I just think it's beautiful. David Millili: Cool. What's the favorite place you've traveled to so far? Brian Applegarth: man, for like a travel trip. Like India, probably. India. David Millili: have you ever been told you look like somebody famous? Brian Applegarth: I have, I mean, I, I don't know how famous they are or if you people recognize the name, but Yeah, I've been told I look [00:05:00] like I think his name was Db Sweeney. Anyways, old school actor. That was in some 1980s and 1990s films. I think that was probably about 50 pounds ago though, so that probably changed. David Millili: Alright. If you had your own talk show, would your first guest be? Brian Applegarth: Rick. Steves. David Millili: now this is the last one. If you had a time machine and you could travel to the future, to the past, which way are you going? And what year would you go to? Brian Applegarth: Ooh, I would go to the 19. Hmm. I definitely, the 1970s. and I think, yeah, I think the 1970s probably in the, kind of the early to mid, so like 1974 and 1975. and probably wanna be in the Bay Area specifically for that, to kind of experience what David Millili: Yeah. Brian Applegarth: Yeah. David Millili: Kinda makes all sense. Steve Carran: Yeah, David Millili: Yeah. Steve Carran: absolutely. So thanks for that. Now we'll get into more of the personal details, what makes you take things like that. So, Brian, you've traveled all over the world and you've lived in so many different [00:06:00] places, but where did you grow up? Brian Applegarth: San Jose, California is where I was born and really grew up in Northern California. So, Up until, like the age of nine or so, I was in San Jose. and then my family moved up to a suburb of Sacramento called El Dorado Hills, which is kind of a, a suburb up up to 50, very much kind of a small cow town. so I was there all through middle school, high school. Steve Carran: and how did that shape you into who you are today? I, I grew up in a small town, Wisconsin, so I kind of can relate to that. So, how did that shape you? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. No, I appreciate you asking. I think being born and raised in San Jose, I think that multicultural kind of, context comes into play at a very formative age. So I think during those young formative years, being around that diversity was definitely formative and how I see the world and then moving up to more of like a, a kind of a white suburban, country setting where, you go to the grocery store and you know everybody in there. Was definitely a shift, but I had that kind of, I think, urban [00:07:00] context prior to that, which I'm really, really grateful for. Cuz I've noticed growing up that other people that didn't have that had a different viewpoint. I think another layer to that was my, my family, my parents were very big on tr travel and culture from a young, young age. So, while being born and raised in the bay, aside from trips and camping throughout California and bordering states, my first exposure abroad was, a European trip at age five, which I think was really had a big impression on me that this world was kind of bigger than and there was a lot to explore. So, David Millili: This is a two-parter. So when was the first time you tried cannabis and when was it that you knew you wanted to, obviously people smoke or do edibles, but don't really want to educate themselves on it. So when, when was the first time you did cannabis and when did you realize you wanted to really dive deep into the more of the kind of the science or things of that nature? Brian Applegarth: So my first experience was in junior high, and it was my older sister's boyfriend, with his friends,[00:08:00] right. So, hanging out with the guys night. and I remember it was out of a bong, so we, smoked and it kind of knocked me over. and that was my first experience. And then I partaked in it occasionally through high school, more in college. but really I was more of a student athlete, so I wasn't as engaged with it at that age. and then as I traveled, I had a handful of experiences where I became very aware that cannabis and hemp had this kind of global culture. Like wherever you went, it was either ganja or like marijuana or like, what are you doing? and I had a handful of moments in Switzerland, in South Africa, in a Rastafari Village. In Amsterdam, of course. but you have all these moments traveling where you realize this plant has a history, a cultural history that ties people together. when I really became more passionate about the plant was really by way of this cannabis travel journey I've been on. I really came into cannabis travel because when I moved back to California in 2013, I walked into a cannabis [00:09:00] shop for the first time. I had no idea they existed. So I had moved back from kind of Nashville and I was being closer to family again. And it hit me like a tidal wave. The more I looked into how many cannabis shops there were in California, it was clear to me this wasn't turning around. and that's when I started thinking about this opportunity of, well, what does it mean for the future of cannabis travel? Because I love travel and I love culture, and this might be a nice entry point to support and be part of the California travel industry and experience. What happened that was un unexpected was I started going down this cannabis and hemp rabbit hole. And learning about the history of a plant through a cultural lens, going back to ancient China and Greece and India. And I became as passionate about the capabilities of the hemp and cannabis plant, the more that I studied. So I became obsessed with just kind of ingesting content, documentaries, information, studying the biology of the cannabis plant. I have a couple certifications, that [00:10:00] tie into cannabis therapy, consultative services, as well as this ganjier cannabis sommelier certification. So all of that I, I find myself today at this intersection where, I'm really an educator at the core, through data and beyond, just really, I think, accurately reframing the truth around hemp and cannabis. And I constantly go back to, wow, this plant has been out of our reach only since 1937, less than a hundred years. Just prior to that, in the early 19 hundreds, it was on the shelves of pharmacies. It was in the US medical pharmacopia. it was like a full on medicine and then all of a sudden, less than a hundred years ago, it got removed. So when you start thinking of cannabis and hemp from a co-evolution point of view with the human species and you understand the biology of the human endocannabinoid system, which is a system that's the master modulator for all of your other systems in, in your body, cannabis and hemp work at extremely [00:11:00] intuitive, high level with this system to help steward wellbeing and balance. So I'll stop there cuz that's the rabbit hole I went down. But when you start understanding that, it becomes wild cuz you're like, these plants can make the world better. They can make people happier and healthier and travel as a platform for people to experience and educate with a hands-on way. I kind of found myself surprisingly at this intersection where, I think cannabis and hemp has kind of matched my passion for travel and culture. Steve Carran: sure. Do you have a favorite strain right now? Brian Applegarth: I mean, I always kind of bend ba back toward, blue Dream just because it's such a good, it's got a unique composition. So Blue Dream is a very popular strain. It has basically a co-dominant terpene profile, which is a unique chemo metric for cannabis cultivars and strains. So, blue Dream's, one of 'em I always love. Harlequin is another one, which is a very balanced high C b D strain and product. I'm also really enjoying cannabis beverages these [00:12:00] days. I mean, you have immense innovation in the beverage scene, so you know, Maison Bloom, can you have Paps Blue Ribbon? So I really do appreciate kind of the experiential side and trying all these new products that, that like come out to see what are the effects, how do they taste, what's the innovation like? What's the packaging like? so yeah, those are some of 'em. I, I know there's another strain out of Desert Hot Springs typically called Burst, which is a nice kind of energetic vibe. So yeah, there's a few strains depending on the time of day and what kind of effects I want. And what's the setting I'm gonna be walking into? David Millili: So you spent some time at Oaksterdam University studying, business of cannabis. is that when you really started to get serious about this from a career standpoint and really, diving deep into it? Brian Applegarth: On the cannabis side, yes. I mean, my original kind of degree was from uc, Irvine in International relations. And I wanted to work for the un so I was always kind of geared toward this international, global approach to whatever [00:13:00] I was gonna do. And, when I, when it became clear to me I didn't wanna work in that kind of space, I started looking at cannabis and how can I educate myself? It just so happened that I was living in Oakland at the time, working in the new home building industry actually with, for nar, the home builder in the East Bay. And I became aware of Oaksterdam University, which is, I mean, is kind of known as the Harvard of cannabis at that time. They've been doing education for decades. and a lot of the teachers there are just luminaries and leaders from California cannabis, which has an immense brain trust from cultivation to breeding and genetics to medical applications. Doctors. I mean, it's just California, Northern California especially, has an incredible, population of knowledge right when it comes to cannabis. So what I did is I started looking at their courses and I was able to enroll. So Oaksterdam was that first step for me to saying, I'm gonna commit to a six month program where I go weekly and I start learning about the cannabis industry in general. And this was [00:14:00] back in. I wanna say 2014, something like that, 2013. and that was my first step into it. Yeah. David Millili: And you also made a short documentary called The Secret Story, how Medical Cannabis was re legalized, in the us. You won multiple awards for that. Can you tell us more about that project? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. So, amateur filmmaker, when I, when I stepped into cannabis, part of my promise to myself was, cannabis travel, I'm gonna follow my passion and really try to create a career that, that is very fulfilling. Every day I wake up inspired and feel present and feel excited, right? That was my, that was success to me. and part of that became the storytelling. I was very fortunate to, I think, well, one, have the cultural travel context. I have a knack because I've experienced so many cultures. I have the ability to walk into and really see beauty and these little nuances of difference, right? All these cultural nuggets that are really [00:15:00] fulfilling for me. and as I started diving into the kind of the cannabis community, it felt very much like a X pack community. Very diverse, very eclectic, super interesting. A lot of moments that make me smile and laugh because there's a lot of characters and people are just crazy passionate about what they do. And I just fed off of that. One of the people I met was Dennis Perone, and he is known as the father of the medical cannabis industry. He's a gay Vietnam vet pioneer lived in San Francisco. And he, a lot of people kind of honor him as the leader that helped legalize medical cannabis in California in 1996. And the reason that happened, the story is very compelling because it really comes down to human life. There was people dying from hiv aids at huge, like large amounts in the city. you had to have these public kind of awareness campaigns, these health campaigns. Dennis was a community organizer. he saw a lot of his community dying [00:16:00] and there was no application on the front lines of the AIDS epidemic and it was terrifying for this community. So Dennis at that time was one of the biggest plot Delors in the city. He was selling it basically as a hippie and then all of a sudden he saw this in real time, becoming a frontline application for humans that were suffering from hiv aids and cannabis helped them eat. It was really simple. It eased their suffering but it also stimulated their appetite in a very quantifiable way that allowed them to keep food down and eat, which was a major issue cuz of the wasting syndrome symptom that came from the AIDS epidemic. and I felt like that story. Is a pi major pivot point as to why can't, why we're having this conversation today. We would not be here if it wasn't for that LGBTQ plus community kind of engaging in activism and awareness around cannabis as medicine. And then when you start pulling back the layers of history, including cannabis being in the us medical pharmacopia up until 1940, [00:17:00] and then being plucked out, you start realizing, wow, this plant has more capability to serve humanity than it's been allowed. And, I draw much from that. But yeah, this film, the Secret Story, at the end of the day, it won about 12 awards. very amateur. I would encourage anybody to watch it's 15 minutes. It will give you incredible context around cannabis as medicine. Steve Carran: Great. So now we'll dive into the section more about your, your career and how you got to where you are today. so from 2016 to 2019, you worked for a few cannabis companies and then you founded, the Cannabis Trail. Can you tell us a little bit more about what the Cannabis Trail is? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. So the Cannabis Trail I look at as a, piece of cannabis travel infrastructure for the state of California. And it's really meant to live as a third pillar alongside the Marin Cheese Trail and the Napa Wine Road, which are already pieces of infrastructure that attract tourism and economic impact to the state of California. So the Cannabis Trail is meant to be yet another piece of [00:18:00] travel infrastructure. It's a nine county cultural trail that is about the cannabis legalization movement. It travels from Santa Cruz up to the Emerald Triangle. For those who don't know, the Emerald Triangle is a very famous region for cannabis cultivation. It used to supply over 90% of the United States with cannabis, and it's Humboldt County, of course, and then Mendocino County and Trinity. So it's kind of like the Napa Sonoma vibe, right? It's like, it's got the, it's what I call a place of source region where cannabis permeates throughout the community and the craft is like next level. So the trail goes from Santa Cruz, which has deep history as well, all the way through, up through Oakland, San Francisco, up through Marin, Sonoma County, all the way up to Trinity County. there's about 25 points of interest, about 17 cultural landmark plaques, and every single stop has a story, whether it's about the L G B T Q community and the aid story with Dennis Perone and Brownie Mary. Or it could be about the war on [00:19:00] drugs and the urban community, the bipo community of Oakland, and what that meant to them. Cannabis was a journey with that community. There's a rich story about veterans and cannabis as a tool for health and wellness and balance, and PTs d it also talks about sustainability, regeneration, the beatniks, the hippies, the back to the land movement, and it goes on and on and on. But you realize that cannabis, the story of cannabis legalization is really a, quilt of stories. Many of them kind of marginalized groups in some way that connect back to this plant. and it's really a, so that's what it is. It's basically a, it's a, it's a trail that's meant to serve California travel, but instead of just being about cannabis smoking and getting high, it's about that rich cultural heritage. Very in like Allah, Anthony Bourdain style of, what is the context around this? I mean, cuz when you start meeting. Also communities, legacy producing communities like Southern Humboldt and Mendocino. There's, [00:20:00] there's a story there where like helicopters, there's a relationship to helicopters there that are very different than anywhere else in the us. I mean, to the point where some of my friends up there, they can hear it from like 10 miles away. no one else can. But they're trained because it was part of their survival, during that war on drugs era where they were kind of targeted as well as a producing community. So when you start digging into it, it's not that far off from the bootlegger tunnels and the moonshine, it's the prohibition stories and that's what the trail serves. Steve Carran: Very cool. and then a year later, in 2017, you founded the Cannabis Travel Association International. you kind of mentioned this earlier, I kind of wanna dig a little deeper. What made you decide to merge the travel and the cannabis side together? Brian Applegarth: I think it's two part, I think it's the culture and I think it's the context and the education that goes hand in hand. so yeah, I think that's kind of, what the passion is behind it? I think another part of that is I believe, the [00:21:00] truth is important and in some ways cannabis and hemp, we haven't done a great job to be able to look at this as a tool, that nature provides and how do we maximize the toolkit that cannabis and hemp offer humanity. So there's a part of Me Too that feels this responsibility of like, get the information out. Give people education and data and let them be on their own journey with it. But getting this back in the hands of humans to be able to make the world better and, things healthier and happier, I think is a really. Important, part of my work and, part of my mission is to just get this truth out. So I did, I did, I established the Cannabis Travel Association International. it's a 5 0 1 C six member based organization. in 2017, right before adult use recreational legal legalization in California. a little kind of historical moment to that is the original name was the California Cannabis Tourism Association. And we did that for two or three years, but we kept getting all this attention [00:22:00] from outside California and outside the United States. So we decided to pivot the brand toward an international footprint. and the three kind of core pillars of that organization are advocacy, education, and networking. So just bringing people together around data and helping facilitate, information and education and partnership opportunities or networking. David Millili: So you also led the cannabis and hemp work groups, for destinations International and the California Travel Association. in working with them, what trends are you seeing? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. So, with the California Travel Association and Destinations International, the audience are DNOs, right? Destination organizations. so when it comes to cannabis, it's interesting because, because it's a burgeoning trend, both hemp and cannabis in the tr in the visitor economy, everywhere from airport to hotel, to attraction, to restaurant, to tourist information office, you start seeing how cannabis is unique because it's really not business as usual. The marketing landscape's a little different from [00:23:00] hemp to cannabis, right? And understanding what's possible there. From a marketing point of view, there's also the need to understand your destination and being able to assess what exists in your market and where are your assets and storytellers. That are on brand for your destination brand, and how do you even go about analyzing that with the data? Yeah. and what are the tools? So, both taskforce have a toolkit. we're constantly providing, tools for DNOs to be able to understand and strategically navigate the hemp and the cannabis space. I think one of the most signature trends of hemp and cannabis both is that because it's so new and the data's so young and people are afraid of the stigma, it inherently becomes a little bit about destination development. whatever destination I, I end up working with as a consultant in a deeper way outside of the task force as, as kind of the subject matter expert, advisor, consultant, the first phases are always, stakeholder engagement. It's not uncommon to meet with the [00:24:00] mayor or the police or, economic development. And I don't know that every other consultant can say that. And I think the reason is, is because. I bring forward the, the data, the case studies, the information, I become an educator, and just an ally for the destination. Navigating this sometimes from an industry development point of view and how that dovetails into travel is, okay, x, y, Z destination. When you're identifying where to put or where to award cannabis shops in your city, how many are in tourist destinations? Is it accessible? Are these operators thinking with a hospitality mindset or is it very transactional for a resident, the low price leader by? So the visitor economy becomes, it kind of really magnifies the unique difference between serving your residents and your communities and having public safety and access and education in mind versus serving the visitor economy. so I think those are, some of the unique [00:25:00] trends I see. Everybody's hungry for data education. content, but then sometimes they get stuck with marketing. But I will say there's a lot of mainstream marketing outlets now where it's starting to become a little bit more business as usual. so staying up to date on that and having this first mover advantage is a big part of my world is big earned media opportunities. so, it's giving it the time, the energy, the attention, the investment, and understanding how to integrate and amplify cannabis in a way that works for your destination. And some destinations want it to be a key story. Some destinations want it to fold right in. but one of the parts too that I, I know I'm kinda on a rant here, but one of the other parts that I think is really interesting with cannabis is people, including the consumer, the cannabis travel audience, as well as destinations are increasingly understanding that cannabis is a pairing enhancement tool for existing activities. Right? and that's gonna be an interesting thing to watch, evolve. David Millili: yeah. [00:26:00] Real quick, the only thing I wanted to add, which is really interesting. So I moved to Phoenix from the east coast in January of 18. And obviously it's cannabis has just become legalized here. And to your point, it's funny cuz wherever you see the shops are in like not the best neighborhoods. they're not near where there would be, it's not in, in prime location in Scottsdale. It's like, farthest East Mesa, 10 blocks off the highway and, and it's not, they're not in, in great areas, which is interesting. So it's, it's a very good point that you made. So, Steve Carran: this is kind of cool. You were the sole advisor on the first ever national research on the cannabis travel audience in the us. Can you tell us about that experience? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. Oh, tell me. I mean, it was, first off, it was amazing. so how that came to be was I was speaking at the American Hotel and Lodging Association and I ended up speaking right after Peter Zoic, which is like this kind of [00:27:00] research guy. And so Peter came up to me after and was like, we should do something. This is great. So that was the beginning of that collaboration with M M G Y, travel Intelligence and very grateful for that. And Peter was incredible and, and Chris and the whole team over there with, bringing me in and also, I mean, I was learning, right? This was my first time really learning how. The travel industry looks at understanding an audience and, and that, so it was a great experience. it still is. we just got the recent data back last week from the 2023 portrait of the American Traveler Cannabis module that we co-developed. so that's gonna be announced in the near future, the findings there. but yeah, just an incredible experience. I really am grateful for like the knowledge I was able to garner. Also, I'm able to help through the questions. I'm able to help people understand the wide range of travelers that exist today for the cannabis travel audience. You have, like the cannabis connoisseur, the AVID user. you have cannabis wellness and wellbeing [00:28:00] travelers that are very much, if you look at yoga, a lot of the data just shows that people are understanding that cannabis is a wellness trend and that's where it centers around. And then you have the can of curious, the ones that want to dip their toe in the water and have some kind of experience. But not necessarily consume, but they want to go in and take the selfie and see what a cannabis lounge looks like, and it's the curiosity of a traveler. so I'm really grateful because I've been able to participate in the questions and the structuring around how we look at the data and what are we measuring and why. so it's been like an amazing journey. And then it's just gone from there. I've been working with o other kind of data companies too, and travel, on the human movement side and understanding kind of the foot traffic and how it moves the needle in relationship to the marketing and campaigns that are being deployed. So it's becoming more sophisticated, all the interconnectedness, of cannabis. So yeah, that experience was incredible. And it still is. Steve Carran: what's the one stat or one thing you found about from that study that was your favorite fun fact or statistic that you guys found? Brian Applegarth: I mean, the most recent [00:29:00] one that I think is like. it doesn't have the whole sexiness around effect pairing and understanding that cannabis enhances art and all this stuff. But right now in the United States, the cannabis travel audience is over 70 million people. It's like 72 million. So the audience is there, and not surprisingly, it, leans, it goes across generations. But millennials and Gen Zers, I mean, they're, choosing destinations where they have access to a cannabis experience. So as a destination, if you're not making people aware of what exists in your destination, you're missing, I would argue, a really important younger demographic that has a very different relationship with cannabis than the stigma of older generations. And they're choosing it over alcohol sometimes and over other libations, because it avoids the hangover, the calories. I mean, it goes on and on, right. David Millili: So Brian in Denver, one of the things that amazed me when I was talking to you was, we touched on it earlier a little bit, the pairings and [00:30:00] how cannabis can enhance certain things. So if you could just take us through like maybe four or five examples of that, cuz it blew me away when we were talking in Denver, this idea about pairing cannabis to either, food or an activity. So could you take us through maybe four examples? Brian Applegarth: I'm happy to. Yeah. And the, I mean, David, the context around this is again, it's honoring kind of what the plant's capable of. And as the science comes out around the many different varietals or cultivars of cannabis, think of it in terms of grape varietals. Cannabis is a flower and it has a lot of different types of flowers that smell different. Some smell like, floral, some are more kind of citrusy. Some are more fuel smelling, and it's because the plant is so ancient, it's so evolved. And the chemo metrics or the therapeutic compounds that are housed within each plant is a really robust toolkit. Right. So you're kind of nodding toward this catching trend in mature destinations like [00:31:00] California called the effect pairing method, which is essentially this as food pairs with wine. Cannabis pairs with activities and experiences. And it's kind of a reimagined way of thinking about cannabis microdosing that is becoming a trend in mainstream culture, small amounts of T h C that allow you to feel lighter, happier, less stressy right it also puts you in a context of what they call flow state, which means that you're incredibly present and you're able to fully engage with a setting or an experience in a way that's very rewarding. It kind of lets the. The stress of the, of, of the future or depression of the past kind of melt away. so all of this is part of this effect pairing cannabis method. And some of the categories are the following, right? It's food. So there's a handful of cannabis cultivars or varietals that are known to stimulate appetite, accentuate palate flavor, taste, and texture in another decade, in another [00:32:00] time, this would've been a frontline medicine, right? or it would've been the munchies with teaching Chang. in today's world, people are looking at these specific cannabis varietals or cultivars as precursors to food experiences at the right kind of dose and, ingestion method. And it's not just smoking it's beverage as well. So, cannabis is the new vermouth is kind of a way to sum it up, is that cannabis is an apertif and A precursor to a Michelin star meal. And that's the foodie effect pairing category. The other effect pairing category that I utilize often is art. So, certain cannabis cultivars, kind of support with enhancing sound and, and colors and shapes as well as kind of interconnection and like a little bit of divergent thought and seeing things that you wouldn't see without. so there's a bucket of cannabis varietals that are now being seen as kind of an aperitif to an art experience, whether that's performing art, or whether that's museum, or whether that's self-creation. Like a puff and paint is, is like a [00:33:00] new trick, right? Like, like a wine sip and Bain. and then another category that goes hand in hand is nature, right? There's some strains, there's some cultivars or, or or varietals of cannabis that, have a more citrusy smell typically, that are more energizing, just like when you bite into a lemon, right? There's this therapeutic compound in some of these plants called li. Which is the same, terpene profile, the same essential oil that you find in lemons. And when you bite into a lemon, you wake up, right? So when you ingest cannabis that has a strong lemon or citrusy, it could come in grapefruit, it's got a bunch of different types. it will be more awakening and be great for like time and nature and a hike and things like this. So this effect, pairing cannabis method, I believe is gonna be the future of like trend. And it already is catching in in trend setting destinations like California. And it's a really nice tool for a visitor to be able to look at their itinerary and say, [00:34:00] what are you doing while you're here? How experienced are you with cannabis? What's your preferred method of ingestion? And would you like to enhance any of your experiences in a very targeted way? So there's terms like targeted sensory enhancement that are part of effect pairing. Flow state, what is your journey? Right? So if you think of mindset and setting, like the old psychedelic days where they talk about set and setting, set and setting. Today we talk in terms of kind of mindset and setting or what environment, what activity, what experience are you walking into, and how are you priming your senses to enhance that experience in a very vibrant way. And I think this is the exciting, a really exciting part of the cannabis travel trend. David Millili: So earlier in the year you started, we talked a little bit earlier about Apple Garth Consulting Services. So can you tell us a little bit more, we, obviously, we know that focus is on cannabis and travel, but tell us what really made you decide to, to start your own practice. Brian Applegarth: there were destinations that kept [00:35:00] approaching me about what does it look like to develop a cannabis travel program, basically. And I went down that path and started working in depth with destinations. And I had been waiting for years, right, for destinations to be, to be ready to actually engage and invest in this in a real way. so that's kind of what led to this independent consultancy. It's Applegarth Consultative Services. And what I do is I work with destinations to essentially strategically navigate the cannabis and hemp travel trend. And all of my services are data driven, of course. It's all data driven strategies. A lot of it leans into content and storytelling. but like I mentioned earlier, the first two phases are typically, of course, client onboard. but then stakeholder engagement and stakeholder education and looking at the brand guidelines of the existing destination and asking those questions of, okay, well, considering all the cannabis assets you have in the market, considering your current destination brand and your brand strategy and your strategic [00:36:00] roadmap, how do we create a, a complimentary strategy that's not disruptive that layers in and integrates cannabis? Destinations talk a lot about being inclusive. This is putting it into practice. You have a lot of cannabis tax paying businesses that are providing experiences to your guests. and it's, it's, I think that there's a lot of markets today where it's time to start down the path of inclusion, right? And including them in some way. So that's what caused me to start it. and I'm really inspired to continue helping destinations evolve and, and continue to grow. And I'm learning as I go, down that road as an independent consultant, cannabis and hemp are extremely unique, right? They're, they're not business as usual. The marketing landscape's a little more complex. So I understand how it could be annoying or disruptive for destinations to stop down and be like, okay, we gotta tackle this now. Like it's just time and then being a support with that, right? With the right tools. I'm definitely thinking a lot more these days about, of course I have the [00:37:00] toolkits with Destinations International and the TR CAN, and the California Travel Association. But I'm also trying to figure out how to continue to scale these very turnkey, high value tools to help destinations strategically navigate it to get to a point where when they're ready to invest in an actual program, that they're kind of well along the path and are able to grow this. and really what powers that goes back to. Let's get hemp and cannabis into people's hands in an educated way, and let them experience how it can uplift their quality of life and their wellness. Because if it's done the right way in travel, you will have visitors go home from your destination and feel empowered and grateful for that experience because of the way that it was done, in a very accurate, truthful, intentional, rewarding way for a visitor that gives them tools where they can go home and, and, and understand it at a higher level. Steve Carran: I love that. And kind of shifting now towards the industry side of things, and I [00:38:00] kinda wanna keep going on this, but what are some of the best practices that you've seen at hotels? Like, how are hotels incorporating cannabis and hemp and really creating these unique experiences for, for their guests? And, where are we? See like, how are we seeing this grow? Brian Applegarth: No, I appreciate the question. Yeah. Hotels are obviously important, right? They are the temporary homes and the pivot points and the information providers for visitors. So I look at hotels as like you have a kind of a tourist information center cap capability. all well understanding that the hotel has a specific brand and a customer experience that they highly prize and value, right? So what does that mean? Well, before I dive into the work I've done with hotels, I want to paint the picture of kind of what sticking your head in the sand does. because I saw that too, because it's not, this isn't an illicit drug anymore sold by the bellhop or the cab driver. right. This is now a, this is [00:39:00] now a above board, more sophisticated experience. So there's, there's this transition that needs to happen to include it. So a couple quick examples of what happens by not being proactive. One, you have, you have delivery services Because people are using cannabis, whether you like it or not. You have delivery services that will pull up right in front of your hotel, maybe the not not the right kind of brand car clothing. And they will throw it in, park, put their hazards on, and go into your hotel and deliver cannabis. You have no insight into is it a legal delivery? Let's start there. and I mean, I'll tell you one of the, one of the, I think one One of the most eye-opening experiences I had about five years ago was typically when I assess a hotel, I go in and I ask the, I ask the frontline staff, the bellhops and the valet, like, Hey, where can I get some weed? And sometimes there were some recommendations that were illegal deliveries. So what does it mean for your hotel staff to be giving recommendations on the fly to an underground delivery service that's coming on your property, [00:40:00] delivering products that are not tested. And then think of vape gate. I would argue the risk is exponential and unknown, and it's easily solvable. It's just having, it's looking at cannabis delivery as a service amenity, right? So that's one risk, and that's how to address it, is who is your delivery partner? Do you have a hotel menu with kind of five milligrams or less non inhalation products where you're guiding your guests toward what you're, what is appropriate on property? and that's one of the strategies that I deployed with farmhouse and in restaurant in Sonoma County the Fairmont Santa Monica and a handful of others, was this kind of bespoke, customized, non inhalation, low dose delivery, which solves in some capacity, the smoking issue as well as the over intoxication issue on property. And now when a guest checks in, it's not this don't ass, don't tell, it's you have a solution that is on brand for your destination. something else I saw was housekeeping. Eating a chocolate off the, the [00:41:00] nightstand and that they left behind and, they're falling asleep three doors down, right? So, as part of your onboard when you have a guest check in, having good information to provide and say, Hey, any cannabis you don't use, you can either drop it off down here or just make sure you throw it in the waste basket before you leave. or having some kind of disposal communication to at least mitigate it as a, as a, as a, as an attempt and an effort. So I think this comes back to what is your customer journey for those who are cannabis interested? And what is your communication? How are you training your staff? So I did this with, Fairmont and Farmhouse where I went in, created basically a strategy for who's the delivery, where do they park? When they meet the customer, is there gonna be a five minute education? So all of a sudden, instead of a handoff, it becomes more of a cannabis 1 0 1 as so we had basically these kind of SOPs for a cannabis delivery service as an amenity. And then we took all that information and trained the hotel staff and said, Hey, this is our new partner. This is [00:42:00] what's gonna happen. so then the staff felt empowered and I said, and then here's your frontline staff collateral where when somebody asks about cannabis, you can provide 'em this hotel approved menu. You can tell 'em the smoking section's over there, and guess what the lo the menu that you're featuring is on brand for your hotel. And it features lo local products that are non inhalation. So it's, there's ways to utilize this as a differentiator. And I, I'd say it would It would serve safety for your staff as well as your visitors and hotel guests. And if you want to talk about it publicly, it really parlays into amazing stories in earned media. I mean, this is that first mover position where the hotels that do this in a compelling way. The other thing I'll mention is activations. So just recently in Mendocino County, we did three kind of four 20 happy hours at hotels. and I think that you're gonna see activations start to bubble up with cannabis beverages specifically that are, and this goes into hemp. This is like CBD pourings, which is federally legal, right? This isn't even the cannabis side. This is the [00:43:00] federal legal hemp side. There's amazing beverages out there where you're able to do these c b D kind of beverage experiences. so then the question becomes for hotels, like boutique hotels are great. They have a huge opportunity here, to be able to include the. This kind of cool vibe, cannabis beverage experience as part of that hotel guest experience. And lastly, I would say the product integration opportunities with hemp. So you have cbd, you have cbn, you have cbg, which are all non intoxicating products that are very wellness driven. and hotels are waking up to the fact that you can integrate these for incremental revenue and, not just in lobby shop or in room, but also in groups and conferences, kind of menus and things like that, which again, becomes an interesting story. so all of those ways are, I think, are opportunities for hotels. and I do have a hotel toolkit, if anyone's interested. I can send that to you guys, or there's, it's downloadable on my website for an email and it's it kind of [00:44:00] outlines all of this information in a 22 slide deck. Steve Carran: One thing you've mentioned a few times, and I actually had a few discussions about these recently, are the cannabis lounges in hotels. Can you tell us more what that looks like and kind of how that's gonna affect the guest experience Brian Applegarth: yeah. And hotel specifically or in the market? Steve Carran: in hotels specifically? Brian Applegarth: Okay. Yeah, so the cannabis friendly hotel era is coming alive, and it's, it's pretty interesting, some of it's like a kitschy hook just to get media. others are going really deeper in that space. when it comes to a cannabis consumption lounge, the way it's emerging in California and other markets is that's a licensed deal. So if you get an actual proper cannabis lounge license, then you are gonna be actively participating in the cannabis supply chain, in the cannabis industry. so that's a little bit bigger of a commitment. there's some SOPs around that and regulations and things like that. There's a hotel out of Colorado that is really doing some in, [00:45:00] they have a smoking lounge as part of their hotel. They are really leaning into that cannabis traveler and catering specifically to that niche. you have other hotels that really have dedicated areas where it's like A B y o B, right? Like if you're 21 and up and you've purchased your medicine, or you purchased your cannabis, you can go sit in this area and consume. but the hotel cannabis lounge that will continue to evolve. And I think hotels are gonna have an opportunity to, just like they have a bar on site, they're gonna be able to have a cannabis, consumption space on site. And I want to tell you why I use the, the word consumption space. Cannabis is super interesting because it comes in the form of topicals in spas, right? It comes in the form of beverages. It comes in the form of smoking. So it has these different form factors. It comes in the form of edibles and culinary. So a hotel might be like, you know what, we're gonna actually lean into the cannabis and culinary side and we're gonna do, activations that [00:46:00] are more about, having cannabis, leaf juice in the morning that is like a power green with kale and other vegetables. So their cannabis has a lot of flexibility when it comes to consumption methods from spa to beverage, to food culinary to smoking and vaping and beyond. So a hotel, I think looking at what is your model, who's your demographic, and what kind of consumption experience fit for us? And a baby step that many hotels are doing now, are the hemp products, right? Which, as I keep going back to is the, the CBD and spa. CBN is getting increasingly known as kind of a sleep aid, and it's actually the fastest selling product in California. Flies off the shelves now. CBN is coming on board, and that's also a hemp product, right? So that can be in a hotel setting. so I, I would urge hotels on this that are watching this to really look into that hemp product suite and maximize the opportunities there as a first step, and then those that wanna be a bit more aggressive. Definitely keep [00:47:00] your eyes open about what are cannabis consumption strategies in a deeper way as that licensing and regulation landscape matures. When you look at ca alcohol licenses today in California, it's over a hundred. Cannabis has like, I don't know, in California, 20 something like that. So you see how young it is, right? David Millili: So when we met at I l C, we sat down on the couch there in the lobby and gave us some great, data. So you, earlier we talked about the 72 million. Audience. So what are some other data points that people listening or watching would be like, wow, didn't know that. Get, if you got some other numbers you can kind of throw at us. Brian Applegarth: Yeah, I mean, so the cannabis travel audience is skews extraordinarily higher as sustainable and regenerative minded. anytime you hear about sustainable regenerative tourism and audiences, the cannabis travel audience is very much that also time in nature is like somewhere. We constantly see this like kind of high skew. The cannabis travel audience also skews higher [00:48:00] as foodies, self-identifying as foodies. actually they also skew higher as wine enthusiasts, which is interesting cuz I always kind of see this battle at the industry level between wine and cannabis. And it's like complimentary, it's like this is the same customer. They like libations and they like to, when in Rome, indulge, it's kind of that mindset. So whether it's food, wine, or cannabis or craft beer, it kind of all is this similar profile. I think another kind of cannabis tr, I mean, I, I guess I wanna really impress that Gen Zers, over 70% of Gen Zers choose a destination where they have access to a modern day cannabis experience. Yeah. So when you're thinking about the future of your destination, bridging the gap of stigma from the older generations to the younger generations is part of that exercise, right? So it's like, preparing. And I guess the other one, it's kind of, I've mentioned it, but from a data point of view, the data's there [00:49:00] is, you see cannabis being associated with yogis and wellness. Cannabis is inherently a plant-based medicine that balances your body and drives wellbeing and wellness. I think having confidence in that from a data perspective and knowing that you can very authentically and accurately weave it into your model from a wellness point of view, that is the modern day cannabis travel trend. it's way beyond where Amsterdam's at. We're moving way beyond that to a whole new paradigm of plant-based medicines and cannabis is like Exhibit A and it's really doing wonderful things. David Millili: So you talked about Gen Z. Is there any data that there's international travel that from certain countries that are coming to the United States to experience cannabis? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. I haven't dug deep, although I will next year if we do this at some point. yeah, the data's young. there's definitely markets that are, I mean, you'll see people are starting to publish. Like, here are the top destinations and Canada's in there and Jamaica and Barcelona, and [00:50:00] of course Amsterdam. but yeah, you don't see, you don't, the data's young. The data's young for that. Yeah. David Millili: Okay, cool. So, where do you see the cannabis hotel travel industry in the next five years? what do you think's gonna change and where's it gonna be? Brian Applegarth: I think we're entering the era of the cannabis. Well, for the mature destinations, which are destinations that I would say have had legal cannabis for two years or more at this point or three. I think you're gonna see the hotels kind of merge in and follow the lounges in creating the cannabis experience economy. And I think that that, footnote, that that includes hemp for hotels. So as the cannabis lounges and the cannabis consumption spaces open up, just to remind you, like even in destinations like West Hollywood, if you look at the lounges that are approved and coming on board, two of them are wellness spaces. Like it's, it goes way beyond just sitting smoking weed. it's gonna really shift people's perspectives. So I think that the lounges we're taking off right now in California with the cannabis experience [00:51:00] economy, hotels, I think are gonna follow suit with, with hemp being the centerpiece. And I believe that, aside from a product integration point of view, I think that's gonna be the first kind of continued step is to go beyond the CBD massage and to have CBN and have lobby shop items and I think that's gonna dovetail into kind of programs and activations for hotels that I think the obvious one is like a, like a cbd, happy hour tasting, just like a wine pouring. but now you're pouring a locally made cannabis beverage instead of it wine, swap out the liquid, swap out the plant. And I think that's gonna evolve even bigger into, educational programs. Like there's a couple destinations that I work with now where, really identifying some of this like local talent or talent even in the state that can come in and do a day session or a two day co, a two-day information course on how CBD and hemp plant medicine can improve your quality of life. I think hotels are [00:52:00] gonna start seeing the opportunity to do these plug and play kind of activations that will draw attention to their property as well as overnight stays if they become a two-day kind of program. and I have about three programs, three experts I'm working with now that are really excited about being a resource to hotels that have that vision, to be able to have a marketable, enriching experience that people can come in, enjoy the destination, spend the night. Leave there with, information in some capacity and have a great travel experience as part of it. So I think that's how hotels will continue to evolve. And I think that also the, so some of the data that we recently got that I'd love to send you guys once it's made public is this ho Hotel. We have a little hotel section we did this year with the portrait of the American Traveler, which gives a bit more context and data points to hotels. So, I think that's my way of saying, the data needs to be more rich. Like we need to keep gathering the data, proving that, cannabis [00:53:00] also is part of the heads and beds conversation. And just cuz you're a cannabis traveler doesn't mean you go sleep under the bridge like you're staying in a hotel and, it's part of it. So, yeah. So the data's key to that, driving all of it. David Millili: So I left a pause there cuz John will probably kill me. We might have to cut this out. But so there's a labor sh there's a labor shortage news flash and hospitality. Maybe cannabis is a solution. So maybe that chocolate is infused with something that has the housekeeper clean more rooms in a shorter period of time. But Steve Carran: Little bit more energy. David Millili: yeah. Brian Applegarth: Yeah. I mean, I, I, Hey, there's all, there's all kinds of ways it can help. I mean, I even did a, I even worked with a hotel where we did a full sustainability strategy where it was hemp, hemp towels and hemp clo. I mean, it was like basically bringing the sustainability of hemp forward in a hotel. And I, I think that there's opportunity there of like, Hey, we're sustainable. We just integrated hemp from an ancillary product point of view, not cons, not [00:54:00] consumer product. Steve Carran: Very cool. Well, we're gonna wrap up here. John's been listening this entire time, so he's got one final question for you, Brian, and then we'll wrap it up. Jon Bumhoffer: So hearing you talk about cannabis, you talk about it in a very sophisticated way. Growing up in high school, you just hear it talked about as weed, marijuana, all these things. So like what I'm, I'm wondering like, what is the connotations of each different word? What's the proper way to talk about it? Or is it just like, what's, what's culturally suce acceptable? Like what does it matter what words you use? Brian Applegarth: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, for the context of this conversation and this audience, the right word is cannabis, it really is. If you think of, Eskimos and the word snow, right? Lots of different words for that because the culture is so profound around that word and its influence. I think cannabis is the same from the global level. So everything from weed, ganja, reefer, [00:55:00] Pot, it goes on and on and on, right? in today's world there are some phrases, there's some phrases that are just slang. Some people believe that the word marijuana has kind of a racially charged history, and it was part of a propaganda campaign to stigmatize, immigrants really, and people that were coming to America that had different practices start from all kinds of communities that that started arriving, that smoked, different kinds of ganja and grass. And, and so yeah, when it comes to the lexicon, it's a really fascinating, fascinating discussion. I think the most interesting point is I attribute it to kind of like that word that is really flexible because it's so culturally relevant and it's influenced so many cultures. The appropriate word today, I would say is cannabis. The caveat there is cannabis and hemp are the same plant. We've created two different words based on the, the effects of the cannabis plant, which has over 0.3 T hc. And that is, that is a [00:56:00] human construct for regulatory purposes. But cannabis and hemp are the same plant. All the ones that fall into the hemp word are ones that have very low to none intoxicating capabilities. And that was from a regulatory controlled substance kind of point of view, where then cannabis is the one that gets you high. But I also wanna point out that cannabis has been used for millennia to be a tool to be able to foster, connectivity and spiritual health. And the effects of cannabis were very much used by many global cultures as a vehicle to help connect with the divine, which in the description of that are some things that we can't see or can't touch, but we know exist. Cannabis being used in that ceremonial capacity. I really hope that we find a way to do that in the future. Just like the green tea ceremony in Japan, or the kava ceremony in Fiji, cannabis has this sacrament [00:57:00] sacramental history and cultural context. And when it's used with that way, with purpose and intention and not just consuming the power that it brings to really, I think drive health and wellness and balance is really significant. So, I know I kind of went off topic, the word is cannabis, but I think, I think understanding the power of how to consume something that has really power, really interesting effects in a very mindful way, is part of the responsibility here as we make this a mainstream travel trend. David Millili: Well, Brian, I think I can speak for the group and I think I can speak for anybody who's gonna watch or listen. But the concept and hearing you talk about cannabis and travel is, is truly fascinating. I mean, it is. It's something that I think, probably, John, Steve and I walking into ILC in Denver weren't ever thinking we were gonna be doing a podcast on. And it's it's been really cool. that brings us to the end of another Modern Hotelier. And Brian, this is the part [00:58:00] where we would like to ask you to, plug away. Where can people find, find you, find more out about your consulting company? Brian Applegarth: Yeah. Great. If you're, if you wanna learn more about my work and, and access some tools, most importantly the hotel toolkit, you can go to my website, brian applegarth.com. That's B R I A N A P P L E G A R T h.com. under the toolkit dropdown, you can go ahead and, and, and access that 22 slide deck. That's, All about can hotel strategies when it comes to hemp and cannabis. you can find me on Instagram at Brian at Brian c Applegarth. yeah, those are the two best places. Also LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. I have a newsletter you can subscribe to that I put out weekly. It's the Cannabis Travel, a Weekly newsletter. and I, I invite conversation and curiosity and, and thank you for for, for listening to this podcast. David Millili: Thank you. Well, that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. You. We thank you Brian and we really appreciate it. Brian Applegarth: Yeah, thank you guys. Thanks for [00:59:00] including this conversation. I'm grateful, so thank you. David Millili: You're welcome. Steve Carran: Thank you.