Beyond the Tech: The Role of Personal Connections in the Hotel Industry | with Nick Horgan

The Modern Hotelier #42:Beyond the Tech: The Role of Personal Connections in the Hotel Industry | with Nick Horgan === Nick Horgan: [00:00:00] even in the roughest times, the ones who have invested in technology, even though everyone's getting less business, those companies that have made the right investments are getting a bigger piece of the share in the space.​ David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier. I'm your host, David Mully. Steve Carran: I am your cohot, Steve Karen. Jon Bumhoffer: And I'm the producer, John Boomer. [00:01:00] David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran: Yeah, David. Today we have on Nick Horgan, the Chief Commercial Officer at Amaze Insights. Nick is an industry vet starting out in the hospitality tech sales during college, and hasn't looked back since. Welcome to the show, Nick. Nick Horgan: Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you, David. I am incredibly excited to be here. In [00:02:00] fact, last night I did a cryptic post where I said so excited that I. Achieved one of my goals right now, and that really was on my whiteboard at the beginning of this year. I said I wanted to earn my way onto The Modern Hotelier, as it's my favorite hospitality podcast. I thought I had a shot at it at when I did my trial run at the N H L. Hockey Hall of Fame event that gain put on. So I, I, I got five minutes there and then I was incredibly excited when these two titans of the industry invited me to join for a full episode. So hopefully I can bring it so that I have a chance to do it David Millili: all right. Stop. You're on. All right, so we got, we got, the way this works, Nick, is we got three sections. We're gonna go through kind of a lightning round where I ask you some quick questions. We're gonna find out about your background, where you grew up. We're then gonna dive into your career, and then we're gonna ask you some of your thoughts on the industry. Sound good? Nick Horgan: That sounds great. Thanks David. David Millili: All right, so, great. So what [00:03:00] was the worst job you've ever had? Nick Horgan: That's a very easy one to answer because I've had some really great jobs in my career and then there's some that haven't made it onto, LinkedIn. One would be in the lumber yard at Menards. So I was there moving extremely heavy pieces of. Wood and helping people. And it was one of those jobs that seems like it would be a lot of fun, and I can assure you it was not. but then I was on vacation with my dad about three or four weeks into the summer and we were in Hilton Head and he looked at me and, and one of my friends and said, if I were you, I wouldn't even go back. Why would you wanna be in Indiana if you could be in Hilton Head? So that night we went out and. Found jobs and a place to live. And I spent the rest of the summer in Hilton Head, which was a little better than Indiana. So that, that was great. And I pitched people on showing up for timeshare appointments, but that, that was just for that summer, but a lot of fun [00:04:00] and a, a learning experience to kind of kickstart my sales career. David Millili: So are you a morning or a night person? Nick Horgan: I think I'm kind of a little bit of both, where I wake up in the morning, ready to face the day and go after it, but I also tend to go probably earlier in my career, I went very late into the nights on entertaining clients where now I I try and shut it down by about midnight, but I, do try and keep the energy up all day and, usually works out that way. If I can get to the gym in the morning, which is not as frequently as I'd like, then I do feel a lot better. But, David Millili: Right. Good. So if you had to delete all the apps on your phone and only keep three, what three apps would you keep on your phone? Nick Horgan: I would definitely keep amaze insights. So that would be one that I would keep for sure. And then I guess LinkedIn and text messages. So the inability to call would be all right as long as I could still connect with people and, and I wouldn't be real [00:05:00] willing to give up LinkedIn. So those would be the three. David Millili: Got it. So what's your most used emoji? Nick Horgan: I don't use as many emojis as I probably should, so I think the, probably the smiling face and that, that would be the top with the, the wink face coming right after to get sarcasm across in the text. 'cause I, I do, I. To make jokes every now and again. You can't get that across without the emojis, but, and that's probably showing my age where I need to get better and embrace the youth like Steve has with my emojis, David Millili: So what's your favorite band or singer? You gotta pick one. Nick Horgan: just one. So I would probably actually go with the Grateful Dead, even though that seems like it wouldn't be a perfect fit for me. It really is In high school. I had no interest in going to the first show, and then it was such an unbelievable time that I think I made it to right around 20 shows. I didn't follow them around like some of my [00:06:00] friends, but the Deer Creek Amphitheater, which I'm sure is called something else now just north of Carmel and which is near Indianapolis. They came for three or four shows every year and, and I caught all of them since it was such a great time. David Millili: So if you had your own talk show, who would your first guest be? Nick Horgan: It would actually be Kelly Cardenas. So I am in the Kelly Cardena studio right now and I'm so appreciative of him 'cause he's really helped me to learn this and he, I. Really brings something different than what I've seen before, and that's really positioning the vibe of your organization. So at Amaze Insights, we've actually engaged Kelly to help us with. Really who we are as a company and creating that right vibe. So for instance, I was just out at the Abridge conference earlier this week, which I can say was unbelievably impressive. And the energy they [00:07:00] brought there was just nothing short of phenomenal. So they have a little more budget than I do. So when we did ours, we wanna do something a little different. So I brought in an Elvis impersonator to help me close out the meeting. originally it was going to be, Start to it and I was a little nervous 'cause you just never know how something like that is going to go or if it will work with the group. So I finished with it, but it, it, it did wound wind up going extremely well. And it's little things like that where Kelly helps to really position who you are as a company and what you wanna bring out to the industry. So at MA's Insights we want to have. Without question, the best product out there, but we also want to have a lot of fun and be a great company to deal with. So doing things like a Tom Cruise impersonator at Buy or finishing our Amazing Sites session at Abridge with, [00:08:00] Steve and Elvis impersonator that really rocked it and came into Viva Las Vegas. And then seeing some of the senior executives from Abridge getting right up and singing along with Elvis was truly something to see. So that was a group of people who are incredibly impressive and. You know that they know their business extremely well, and then what you see at the conferences, it's also a company that knows how to have a lot of fun too. So that would be my first guest because I'm appreciative of what I've learned from him and positioning. So, David Millili: All right, last one. So if you had a time machine and you could go into the future or into the past, which way are you going and what year are you going to? Nick Horgan: Now that is a great question that I have to give a little thought. I think I'd probably go to the future because that's really where I'm looking and I, I would go, I think about, I. 20 years in the future because I would love to see how my [00:09:00] kids are doing and, and that would be exactly what I wanna see and check on. And I am hopeful and, convinced that they'll be extremely successful. And I, and I'd love to see that. So I think that's where I'd go. David Millili: That's Steve Carran: May maybe check out a few stocks while you're there too, so you know Nick Horgan: Well, or if I went into the past, I'd probably, there's some stocks I would most likely buy. And, and some of 'em, I was actually in the right place and left too early, for instance, on apple was an investment I made relatively early. And then I had a friend that told me, well, everyone already has an iPod, so He probably should dump that. I think they did come out with a, a few other products after that. I haven't really looked at the ticker, but I think it maybe went up just slightly since Steve Carran: They've been doing pretty well recently, so you'll, you'll be happy with it, but that was awesome. Now we're gonna get into more of the part where we learn a little bit more about you, kinda what makes you tick. So you grew up in Indiana, is that right? Nick Horgan: That's right. So Carmel, Indiana, which is a [00:10:00] suburb of Indianapolis on the north side. I was born in Pennsylvania, but really my, my entire childhood and teen years right. Until I started working, Steve Carran: I love that. I love that. So John and I are both from the Midwest as well. How would it growing up in Indiana, shape who you are today? Nick Horgan: So I'd say really my mom and dad are the, biggest impacts, which I think is probably true for most people. And, some of the perspective I got from my dad is just I. Being in the right place, doing the right things and working hard. So one of the things that really was drilled into me at a very young age, which my brother Lee, who's also in the industry will, certainly appreciate this because we both look at it and that is, I. Do what you have to do and then do what you want to do. So setting your priorities so you get the things that you really need to do that are important done so that you can then move on to the things that you really want [00:11:00] to do. and if you don't do that, I think what you'll find is even when you're doing the things that you want to do, like for instance, for me, if I'm out playing pickleball, if I had. Items on my to-do list that I hadn't gotten done. I'm going to be thinking about that, where if I have really nailed all the things that I needed to get done, and then that evening when I go out and play pickleball or do something else, I'm gonna feel a lot better about it and truly be able to be in the moment and present. And I think that's important. David Millili: So you went to Indiana University Business School, one of the top business schools in the country. What's the one thing that stood out to you when you went there? Nick Horgan: Interestingly, probably what helped me the most in my career was not something I picked up in the business classes, although those were incredibly valuable, but it was actually, as social chairman of the fraternity. So I was responsible for planning events and ensuring people had a great time and really positioning things. And [00:12:00] that is something that carried over into my career where. Really trying to create unique experiences and something about me is I really do want to impact people positively whenever I hang out with them or connect in a business setting. And I want people to have a really great time. And that's something that we did focus on and. Learn in school and, and at the time I think my dad probably would've liked me to spend a little more time hitting the books and studying. But interestingly enough, it was the social side of it that probably wound up serving me even more later in my career and, and getting things kicked off. So, Steve Carran: You ever use any icebreakers you used in the fraternity days in your role currently? Nick Horgan: I'd say they're a little bit different than the ones we use, but I really do love a great icebreaker and, and bringing things around. And one of the ones that I, that I have used multiple times that feel free to steal from [00:13:00] me is getting a deck of cards. And then I. Giving people in the room just one card and then having them connect with each other and find the best poker hand that they can. and as part of it, what I'll also do is I will leave, a royal flush just sitting out on the desk and I don't say anything about it, it's just sitting there. And then I'll have some other people in the room that are also holding. Very high cards or a royal flush where if you walked over, so for instance, a titan of the industry, David Mully, if I were doing the icebreaker with him, I would have him standing there with the cards in his hand, and then if a person walked over to him and just said, could I have those? His answer is yes. Hands 'em to him and a per, and that person can then say, I have this. They would take down the prize. What you'll find is, Almost no one will pick up the cards that are on the table or go to the people that are not [00:14:00] sitting at the table as part of the exercise. They will box themselves into that. And then the teachable moment that we do afterwards is, did you happen to notice David in the corner? Then what I'm trying to do in a, from a sales training perspective is don't focus on just the people that are sitting at the table. Find out who else is in the room, and then the other part is the reason the cards are on the table is a lot of times the information that you need is right there and you just have to be willing to pick it up. So an immediate victory in this exercise can be in, in literally, Three seconds. So the first person to reach out and grab them would have it. and the only people I've ever seen do that are ones that have been through one of my little trainings more than once, which then I, I try not to do the same exercise more than once with the same group of people because then it, it becomes very easy. But that's also true of sales. Once you figure it out, it's not rocket science.[00:15:00] Steve Carran: well, Nick, new new segment, we're trying with you. It's called My first Tweet. do you remember your first tweet on Twitter? Nick Horgan: I think I do, and I think it is my only tweet on Twitter. So I'd go through and I think it was it was a response to Kimpton where we were working on a, a CRM project for them and They tweeted in the meeting to me, so my first tweet was a response to that, and that may very well be the only tweet that I've done. Steve Carran: You actually did one before that. It was, it was a late night tweet. It was at 11:26 PM November 15th, 2009. Now I'm gonna ask, does that date ring a bell for you? Nick Horgan: it does not Steve Carran: So here is your tweet. Can't believe the Colts pulled out the victory. Thank you. Bill B. Do you remember that game? Nick Horgan: so thank you Bill B. So Bill Belichick is who I'm shouting out to. So [00:16:00] I must have been at the, a f C championship game where the first time the Colts beat. Patriots, which I then did go to the Super Bowl, so I probably was not tweeting at that, but my friend Matt Wine and I did, and at the time it truly was a stretch. So the investment in those tickets and what I can tell you is not a single day has gone by where I regretted that decision. And I think it helps that they did win the Super Bowl against the Bears that year. but I did not remember that tweet. So thank you, Steve Carran: So here's the game. The Patriots led for most of the game, taking a 34 17 lead. In the fourth quarter, the Colt scored two touchdowns in the final minutes to win the game. With 13 seconds left, Peyton Manning threw a one yard touchdown to Reggie Wayne goes down as one of the best games and biggest upsets in N F L history. So it was a tweet. Well worth it apparently. I don't think most people can say that about their first tweet, but that was a good [00:17:00] one. Nick Horgan: I, I appreciate that. And it, and you know what, I remember the game extremely well. I did not remember that I tweeted about it. So, and then I'm guessing that I didn't do another tweet for quite some Steve Carran: No. that. was pretty much it. But yeah, that's what I'm here for, to dig up those tweets, so, Nick Horgan: I, I appreciate that. I. Steve Carran: well, perfect. Now we'll move on to your, your career a little bit. So, during college you worked at the New Market International. You worked at New Market International, and you moved up to the regional sales director, or you moved up from the regional sales director to the director of sales in North America until they were acquired by Amadeus. You worked there for quite a long time. What made you fall in love with not only, I guess, tax sales, but also the hospitality industry? Nick Horgan: So it really was the people and, and new market was a phenomenal place to work. Just really great people, great products, and it was the industry people I really, [00:18:00] really enjoyed and loved. And it, it. it is what has kept me there the entire time. And the acquisition of New Market by Amadeus really was phenomenal as well. Amadeus is a fantastic company and I think I was there about seven years after the acquisition and it was a great experience because I was able to work for a really good, well-run company in New Market and see that grow from I, I. Say, probably doing around $5 million a year in sales when I first joined to well over a hundred million, when the acquisition happened. So going from a relatively small technology company to a medium to large one, over to an a extremely large. technology powerhouse in Amadeus, where you see the kind of resources that are available with a company of that size where I think we went from right around a thousand employees to [00:19:00] well over 16,000 employees. So that was an experience in itself, but it was really the, the people that kept me there. And then, in my career, I think it was just time to try something different and, Really be at a smaller startup type company, which is very much what amazing insights is. and it's been really exciting so far on, on that side where I, I think we may be the fastest growing company in hospitality and certainly growing at a much faster pace than my first time around. and so that has been really fun to see and it, it really does go back to the people. So Mike Kenny. And Jamie job are just all around. Truly amazing and exceptional people. So I had known both of them for about 25 years and they had had really successful careers before this. And the way we look at Amaze Insights is it, on paper, it looks like it's an, an overnight [00:20:00] success because we've have scaled so quickly. But the way I like to look at it is it's an overnight success that really was 25 years in the making where. The group coming together and, and doing this. a lot of it is from, and I'm, I'm tying it back to what you asked about new market in those early days is how to run a company in the right way and make decisions where you really do have the right people. Then you treat customers fairly and in the, and in the right way, which is absolutely something that that new market did throughout my career. And it made it a really great place to work. And it's not to say that they always got everything right and no company does, but the real test is when things don't go right, that you then do the right things. So that really made it a, a pretty phenomenal place to learn and, and start my early career. David Millili: So we got to have dinner together at High Tech with my [00:21:00] good friend Anthony Mel Curie, who is not easy to impress. and he was, was really impressed with just you as a person and just hearing about your background. And so I. When you got to Amadeus, you were really, you were the number one worldwide revenue producer for about seven years, as you said, as director of strategic accounts. what is a key to being successful in hotel tech? Sales? Nick Horgan: So it's a great question and that dinner was such a fantastic time and I had. Followed Anthony for a really long time and, and watched his show on the travel channel and he's obviously an icon in the industry. So, and that's where David, it's not that I didn't want to have dinner with you 'cause I'd always love to do that, but when you said, oh, well if you'd like to join us for dinner, I was like, well I was gonna try and chase down this person he is. And then you mentioned who else was gonna be there. And then my schedule more miraculously cleared up. Not that it wouldn't for you and, and Steve at any time, but, so that dinner really was. David Millili: that's okay. I'm used to being second around Anthony.[00:22:00] Nick Horgan: Yeah, and he really, really was impressive. But as far as, I think what has allowed me to be successful, and this is the part that people don't always see, is all of the steps that happen on the way up to winning a deal where I think a lot of people see the really large enterprise deals and they see the very end of it, and they see the signed contract and they think that. You went in and, and hard charged and got the agreement signed, which that is an infinitesimally small part of the overall process. And I think the biggest thing is going extremely wide within accounts and understanding what the real business problems and challenges that they have, and then determining whether your product is the right fit for those people. And I. Never want to put their product in unless it truly does address those challenges. So I think that is the biggest part of it, [00:23:00] is taking the time to truly understand what is happening. So in an example of, I won't say the name of the company, but in an extremely large global brand where I, I was responsible for the sales process for a, a global rollout of between six and 7,000 hotels, and I. That deal was probably about five years in the making and all of the different people that needed to touch it and understand what was happening and, and drive that through where. I knew and, and the people that had really been helpful in, in bringing that together knew everything that happened on kind of the front side. But then people that saw it from the outside really just saw those last two or three months where it was a negotiation on, on the contract. And they think that is the deal, but it really isn't. It's everything that happens before that. And then I think the other part that's extremely important is, Your own [00:24:00] integrity and reputation and doing the right things. Because as long as you are doing that, I think what you'll find is the people who have bought from you previously are going to be more than willing to do that again. So I think I, over the years, I've sold around 20,000 hotels on some form. A solution and a a what has now become a, a pretty huge network of people that I know well and, and can go to and position and I, I think that has also helped this time around where we're we have been able to scale. Pretty quickly. And a lot of it is people that, that know me or know Jamie or know Mike and know that we are in this to, to really do the right thing. And that's not just saying that it really is where we really do want to help and bring a solution to the table that truly solves challenges and issues.[00:25:00] David Millili: That's true. Steve Carran: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and I love that. Kinda leading into the next question here, after Amadeus you went to Tambourine to be Chief Sales Officer, then you were an advisor and now you're Chief Commercial Officer, at MAs Insights. Tell us more about what you're focused on as being a Chief commercial officer. Kind of different, more than just being a sales guy, and, and also tell us a little bit about Amaze Insights, what you guys do, what makes you unique? Nick Horgan: That's great. Thank you. So as Chief Commercial Officer, I'm really responsible for the overall. Long-term plan of revenue. So it's the sales side of it, but it is also how we're positioning in the market and then guiding the strategy of what investments we need to make to go forward. And what AMA Insights does is it gives a. Single pane of glass view of reports and analytics specific to the sales and catering side of the hotel. So that's an area where I had spent really [00:26:00] the majority of my career and selling the, the Delphi product. And Delphi is an absolutely phenomenal sales and catering system. but one area where it. It can be enhanced is on the reporting and analytics side of it. what you'll also find are mixed flag management companies will have a combination of Hiltons, Hyatts, Marriotts, and then some independent hotels. And a lot of times those. Companies are going to have various sales and catering systems at each of these hotels. What Amaze Insights does is collect the data from all of these various disparate. Systems, and then we normalize the data. So it gives you an exact view of your performance, regardless of which sales system you're using, and then helps you to really understand the top of your funnel and then how you can [00:27:00] enhance and increase business to really make better decisions and drive profitability for your organization. So it was a. white space that we saw in the industry. And, Ford Blakely, who's the founder of Dingle, he and I were really looking at a, a wide set of companies in the industry. And we saw the product that Jamie and Mike had built, and originally we thought of it as potentially an add-on to another acquisition that we were. Potentially going to make, but the greater, we dug into the product and saw what was there, we realized that it was how we wanted to focus our efforts. So originally we were looking at companies that were quite a bit larger than this. But what we saw was this was an executive team who were the exact people that we [00:28:00] would want to hire, even if we had. Purchased something totally different. and with Mike and Jamie, they, this was not actually an acquisition, it was an investment, because they also knew what they were sitting on. And that's where we really did pivot when we saw this, just because the, Opportunity was, was so substantial that as opposed to an acquisition, it, it was an investment to help scale and, and grow the company. and it is where I decided I, I really did wanna be full-time. but also admittedly it I didn't see. The potential was quite as large as it really is. When we first looked at it, we thought it was a fit for a certain profile and type of management company, but not necessarily for the largest management companies in the world. and we. Maybe we're not sure whether it was a fit for the largest brands. And now that we've really [00:29:00] started and dug in, we've realized that it is exactly that. So it, it works for extremely small hotel management companies all the way up to, really the, the largest hotel management company in the world. So we were extremely excited to. Partner with Abridge and we are now 750 hotels into a 1200 hotel rollout. so e extremely exciting times. And it, it is also certainly a lot of work, but their team has been so incredibly phenomenal to work with. And, as a smaller growing company, I just. Can't express how appreciative I am to their senior executive team and Steve Carran: It sounds like a great product. Just something to highlight all the revenue opportunities. And not only that, but I can't imagine how much time that saves employees and Hotelier. Nick Horgan: Exactly right, Steve, it it, huge savings of, of time and, and being [00:30:00] able to identify those, those market opportunities. See that, which it's, it's something where we even realized in our own product, we found an insight as we were prepping for a demonstration, we saw a spike in cancellations, and it was only a single day spike. So then we went back and looked, kind of like, when you looked at my first tweet, we said, what is it that happened on that day? And it was, the day S v B. Bank declared bankruptcy, but within a MA's insights, we saw both the spike and then more importantly, we saw that that spike leveled out right after that, and it was not something that. Was a, a broader contagion, at least at that time in our space where, the omicron spike was a little bit different, where that lasted a little bit longer. And we were able to see both of those within the data and our product, and then be able to action against that with our strategy. So, [00:31:00] for instance, with S V B Bank, had that been a longer. Challenge in the banking sector. It would also, give you insights into which sectors were not affected in those same ways, so that you can then focus your sales efforts on which opportunities are most likely to wind up bringing business to you. Steve Carran: Awesome. So now we're gonna jump more into the industry thoughts here. get your ideas on what's happening in the current day. what should hoteliers I. Be doing to create more revenue and, and specifically any technology they should look into. Obviously amazing insights isn't there, so Nick Horgan: that's one. So, LodgIQ, David Mul Lilly's company. So I would look at the revenue as far as that. And I do think so LodgIQ and I'll also say, or similar ones. So really understanding revenue management, making the investments in products that help to drive your revenue, that is incredibly important. And then I'd also say,[00:32:00] in. Dig investments in the digital media space and where that can drive things forward. So I have a really good industry friend by the name of Jessica Perlow, who she's responsible for digital media over on the Amadea side. And the two of us have just talked about the industry and where the opportunities are. And the reason she, and this isn't a pitch for Amadeus, but so it's really the, the broader perspective. I just share. Jessica, just because she's someone I really looked up look up to in the industry and she talks about how it helps to unlock opportunities. So I'd say that's the other space where it's really key. And then I think what you also see is with the partnership that was just announced with Marriott and M G M Resorts, two phenomenal companies coming together to really expand their distribution strategy. Where I think that if you look at the, the loyalty programs and the ability to target the [00:33:00] right profile of guests as well as on the group side, that is right now where I think that the focus should be for hoteliers because I think that there still are really significant opportunities. And then I also, am really seeing where the in-person meeting side. Of our industry took a little bit longer to recover than leisure did. but where I, I think that the post covid spike of travel, that's, I don't wanna say softening 'cause I think it's still doing phenomenally well, especially compared to historicals. But the group segment had not picked up nearly as quickly. but that really is now, so it's focusing your efforts. On how to target the group and event space because that is an area where I do think that there still is significant near term opportunity [00:34:00] and I. On the, the long-term side, I think that's where you're gonna see really incredible opportunity because as work has changed and more offices are a little more hybrid, although I know they're also kind of a lot, are trying to bring people back into the offices, the importance of those on site. Meetings and one-to-one connections are more important than ever. And then I think as we also look at, as things are disrupted a little bit by ai, at least in the near term, I don't see AI being able to replace those personal connections and relationships that happen. So just like you said, David and Steve with us going to dinner together and sitting down and having conversations in person. That's not something that anytime soon AI is going to be able to replace. So that's my thought is really being able to lean in on that side of it where if it [00:35:00] is writing a press release or something like that, where AI is already making a huge impact in those areas, but those one-to-one relationships and. Conversations and the things that happen in person. I think we still have a little time before we're all holograms and, and AI is able to just interact with each other on that. David Millili: So I've been at this a long time, as Steve knows. I rode a horse to my first hitech. That's all what I am. Why do you think hotels are so slow to adopt? I. New technology. It seems even something as simple as mobile key and things of that. What, why do you think it, it, it takes Hotelier so long to just really kind of catch up with technology? Nick Horgan: So overall industry, it's a great question and I think you mentioned mobile key. So Marcy Albert from Open Key, she is another person I look up to in the industry and she talks a little bit about exactly that and some of the challenges that are there. I don't think it's an unwillingness to [00:36:00] adopt the technology. I think what it really is is hotel companies have a very significant amount of technical debt that's out there and infrastructure. That is pretty dated. And so being able to add new great products, they have to work well with what is already in their tech stack. And I think what you'll find is some of the products that are in hotels and in the large hotel companies, they could be 25 or more years. Old. And so they certainly were not designed to interact really easily with an Apple iPhone or an Android device and everything else, just 'cause those didn't exist when they started So I think that is part of it. And fear of the unknown. And we have had a few companies in our space that. Made relatively large promises and then [00:37:00] didn't necessarily live up to those promises. So I think that creates another challenge and some resistance to adoption. But I think what you are also finding is the companies that do embrace technology and invest in the new products that help them drive things forward, they do wind up having better results than some of the companies that haven't made investments. And what I'd also say is, I've been through, and I know you have as well, David, several times in our industry, 9/11 2008, where it was a pretty tough time to be selling technology in the hotel and event space just based on what was happening overall. But there are some companies that still made investments. When times are a lot tougher, and then what you find is when the market conditions improve, those companies do considerably better than the others. And then I'd say even in the roughest [00:38:00] times, the ones who have invested in technology, even though everyone's getting less business, those companies that have made the right investments are getting a bigger piece of the share in the space. Steve Carran: Absolutely right. And I'd like to get your perspective on this. Over the past few years we've had quite a few challenges in the hospitality industry with covid and labor shortages, things like that. What do you think is the current biggest challenge that's happening right now in the hotel industry? Mm-hmm. Nick Horgan: I think you nailed it with labor shortages. You see it when you go to a restaurant. You feel it when you're in hotels. I think they are starting to get a little better to, Bring in the right people, and I think the companies that are successful in bringing people from outside the hotel industry and helping them to learn hospitality, those companies are going to do well. But it is very challenging when you look at what's happened within inflation and the ability to support your [00:39:00] family. It. Is the jobs that sustain the industry for, really the whole time that I've been in it. They would be challenging to be able to do exactly that in this higher cost environment. So that is a very significant challenge. I think that's facing the industry. then looking at the short-term rental space and how that has exploded, that is certainly a challenge and potential challenge, but I know at least me personally, if I am. Going somewhere with my family, I may be a little more open to looking at the short, short-term rental side, but if I'm there on business, I actually do want the infrastructure that is provided in a hotel. And if I was looking at it from an event side of it, I really do want to be someplace that that does it professionally and and brings things together. Just like the conference I went to earlier this week, you see? Just how much those events do for [00:40:00] bringing the company up to be able to really get to the next level. So I think that is one of the biggest challenges, but also really where a lot of the opportunity lies as we look at our industry Steve Carran: And then there's like a bleacher travel space, which might be a combination of both, right? So Nick Horgan: we're seeing a ton of that and I've even been doing that as well where it is going to meetings in Las Vegas and then also bringing my kids for the Taylor Swift concert. Things like that where you can, you can miss the business and leisure together and I think it's really important to, to do exactly that. One of my early. Mentors that I really looked up to who sadly has passed now. Ed Friedlander was really one of the best I'd ever seen at mixing the two. So he was helping me really early on when I, I was doing a deal with Intrawest on, on Delphi early on, and I. He said, well, if we're going to be up in Vancouver to meet with them, wouldn't it make sense for us to go and ski Whistler at the same time? [00:41:00] And it hadn't even, it truly hadn't crossed my mind because before that I would just grind every single sales trip. I would set it, I'd get into the city and I would leave. And then we stayed a extra couple days and skied as part of it. And. Interwest was pretty awesome with setting us up with everything we needed for that. but Ed did also bring me to the backside of, I think it was black home where we were skiing the glacier, which was I was a relatively good, not great skier, especially at the time. And it got up to a, cliff with about a 20 foot drop and that was the only way in. And that was. Pretty significantly outside of both my skill level and comfort zone, but it was also, it was. The options were to hike all the way back down that we had just done or drop in. So, I did drop in and then my really good friend from the industry after Ed passed, looked at things with Eddie [00:42:00] would go basically saying that Ed Friedlander would do it. And so I've tried to kind of embrace that and, and sometimes you have to just go for it. And on that, sheer terror in my eyes. I did drop in and, and make it down and off the glacier, but I truly was terrified. And had the hike been a little bit shorter, I definitely would've hiked back instead of dropping right in. So it not advice I want my kids to fully follow as far, always like always jumping right in, but at that time it was the right thing and I guess you can apply that to business as well, where I did look at. I was probably too conservative early on in my career where now what I've seen with Amaze insights, I, most likely would've taken a, more significant risk a little bit earlier. But then I'm also grateful that I did it at such a time where I really did find the right people, the right product, and the right opportunity. So what I will say is if you are in a place in your career where you. [00:43:00] Feel like you're not in the right spot. finding a way to get out and into the right spot is something you should absolutely do. Because it just feels right when you are in that. And people can tell, they can tell when your excitement is real and when you're talking about, as opposed to just kind of going through the motions. David Millili: That's good. So this question will dive into a little deeper. So I'm an gm. I've worked probably every position you can work in a hotel. a lot of people that move from the hotel side operations into tech. What advice would you give to somebody who's wanting to move from being on property, being in a management company to going into the tech side of our business and whether it be support, sales, anything like what, what advice would you give that person? Nick Horgan: It's a great question, David, and I think the biggest piece of advice was, would be understanding what is different on the vendor side of the equation from the hospitality side where I. [00:44:00] The hotel, you have really successful people and they are. Managing interruptions. 'cause in the Hotel by design as the gm, I'm sure you saw it, where you have a plan, you come into the day, but then everything happens and it takes you away and you need to move from one set of items to another. Where when you move over into the. Tech side of it. you still of course, have those inter interruptions and things that ha happen, but you can take the time because you're not talking about a 24 hour business, even though now it, it, it kind of is, where you, you. Can do a better job of setting goals at the beginning of the day and then checking and going through each of those. So I'd say that's probably the, the biggest difference is where in the hotel everything does and should be surrounded a around the guests. Where on the tech side you have a chance to [00:45:00] really set what the plan is and then bring together. The right group of people to execute that plan. So that would be my, my biggest piece of advice. And also not to be, Looking at just your own experience. So if you were a GM at a certain type of hotel, you, you probably know a lot about the different segments and the other types where if you're on the the tech side, you really do have to understand the profile of both the owners and the employees. At a limited service hotel, a select service extended, say resort. Large group house, really all the different types because their needs really are pretty significantly different. So if you're selling something into hospitality, people think of it as, oh, I sell into hotels, and these are hotels. But to be really successful in it, you need to understand in the different chain scale and property types, how significantly different their, their [00:46:00] needs really are. Steve Carran: Great answer. well our producer John, has been kinda listening the whole time as well, so this is where the part of the episode where John gets to ask. Ask you the final question. So John, I'll hand it over to you and go ahead. Jon Bumhoffer: All right, Nick, you said you're from Indiana. My wife is from Indiana. I don't think many people think. Of Indiana as being like a luxurious travel destination. So I'm curious to know what is one place or hospitality experience that's like a hidden gem in Indiana that you would recommend people go to? Nick Horgan: So without question, it would be the Indiana Memorial Union. So the hotel that's right. They're attached to Indiana University. 'cause even though you don't think of Indiana as this beautiful place that's really pretty, the Indiana University campus in Bloomington truly is, especially if you go there in the fall and catch a football [00:47:00] game you may not see the best football in the world, but what you will see is some of the, the best people and experience and the campus truly is. Exceptionally beautiful. and the union sits right in the middle of campus and one of my first sales trips was back to homecoming at Indiana when I had first come back to, When I was at, starting with New Market where Chris Avery was my director of sales at the time, he agreed to cover the, the travel for me to go back. And then he said, and if you land the deal with the hotel, then we'll cover all the rest of your expenses. Which, luckily I did land the Delphi deal for the hotel. So that covered, which at the time made it made a very big difference. So that would be my advice in the hidden Gem would be. That campus, and then you can do the relatively short drive out to Brown County and, and see the changing colors of the leaves and it, it really is worth doing. So, there is more than corn in Indiana. I think that's part of their [00:48:00] tagline, at least it was about 20 years ago. Steve Carran: I thought you were gonna say Gary, Indiana for sure, but next time. Nick Horgan: that, that I'm not gonna put on my highlight of travel destinations you need to go to. But I, I don't also don't want to get a lot of hate mail from the C V B and Gary, if there is one. David Millili: That's funny. So that brings us to an end of another episode of The Modern Hotelier. So Nick this is where you get the plug away. Tell us how people can find out about Amaze Insights and how people can get in touch with you if they wanna reach out to you. Nick Horgan: Absolutely. So please feel free to send me an email directly at nick@amainsights.com or go to our website, which is Amaze Insights. Dot com or general information info@amazinginsights.com. And I'd also love for you to reach out to me on LinkedIn and I really do wanna thank The Modern Hotelier and John, Steve and David. 'cause I really have enjoyed my time today and I've been a long time listener. [00:49:00] Second time caller since I got to do the event at the H Hockey Hall of Fame, but this has been a great deal of fun and I'm so appreciative to have this opportunity and look forward to connecting with you again soon. Thank you. David Millili: you. Steve Carran: Thanks so much, Nick. We appreciate you coming on. David Millili: All right, well that does it for the Modern. Hotelier. Thank you very much and we appreciate it. We'll see you soon.