Have you ever had an experience that completely blew you away? That left you thinking, "it can't possibly be this good"? Where the service was just sublime?
CEO, Dr. Jeffrey O, and St. Justine Hotels and Residences are aiming to provide this level of service. They are building modern luxury on the cornerstones of beauty and consistency. Dr. Jeffrey O is an author, educator, motivational speaker, as well as a self proclaimed service evangelist and he joins us to share his experience in building St. Justine Hotels and Residences, his insights on providing exceptional services, his writing, and so much more!
In this episode you'll discover:
- Where Dr. Jeffrey finds inspiration for his writing
- Why consistency is so important
- How training staff well is essential
- The power of recognize people and their work
The Modern Hotelier is presented by Stayflexi
Produced, edited, and published by Make More Media
Quotes
"Technology is a moving train, you can either get in front of it or get inside." - Dr. Jeffrey O
"Great technology does not make great hotels, great people make great hotels." - Dr. Jeffrey O
"TWe should recognize people, we should make people feel good about what they do." - Dr. Jeffrey O
Episode Links
Dr. Jeffrey O
David Millili
Steve Carran
Transcript
Automatic Transcription - please excuse any errors
David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier presented by Stay Flexi. I'm your host, David Millili.
Steve Carran: And I'm Steve.
David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program?
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, today we have Dr. Jeffrey O. Jeffrey's a globally renowned CEO, educator, leadership coach, motivational speaker, and even an author. He's been recognized as one of the most famous and influential leaders in the world of global hospitality. Currently, Jeffrey's the CEO at St. Justine Hotels and Residences. In addition, he also serves as the President of the International Hospitality Institute, where he oversees global operations. Jeffrey has published several books of fiction and nonfiction, including Dead or Alive, an action-packed thriller. Welcome to The Modern Hotelier, Jeffrey. We're happy to have you.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Steve, thank you so much. I appreciate your kind introduction. Thank you. That's quite a bit, but thank you very, very much. Appreciate it. And also, David, thanks for having me.
David Millili: Thank you. Welcome, Jeffrey. So, the format of The Modern Hotelier is that we're going to ask you some personal questions, just so the audience can get to know you a little bit better. We'll then blend that into some personal questions about your career, your current company, and the things that you're working on. And then we'll end with industry topics and trends to get your input there. Sound good? Okay, so what was your first job?
Dr. Jeffrey O: My first job was as a front desk agent in a hotel in Baltimore years and years ago. I worked for a Marriott property or now Price Street as a front desk agent, and it was a fun experience. I liked it so much, I decided to stick around, and here I am, still in the industry many, many years later.
David Millili: What's the weirdest thing you've seen in a hotel?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Well, I've seen all kinds of things. I don't know.
David Millili: Everyone says that could be a whole show on its own, but we're asking it.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Probably enough, when I've seen all kinds of fans. I had a gentleman who was quite upset at check-in. He wasn't very happy and he decided to, you know, relieve himself at the front desk. He was really upset and I guess he drank a little bit too much and he decided to just let fly at the front desk. And it was quite surprising and released. So that's only one of many; there have been a lot of experiences. One thing I think I'm actually going to write a book about the hotel industry. So I'm toying with that idea and it's going to be quite interesting, I'm sure.
David Millili: I agree. So, what would you be doing if you weren't in hospitality? If that wasn't your path?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I'd probably be writing books full time. I love to read, I love to write. I've got a ton of books in my home library. I just love books. That's my passion. So if I wasn't fully in the industry, I probably would be writing a lot.
David Millili: Great. If you could trade places with someone for a day, who would it be?
Dr. Jeffrey O: That's a very interesting question. I've never thought about that. It would be someone living or someone... Well, it has to be someone living right now.
David Millili: Yeah. If you wanted to go back in time, I'll let you go back.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Oh, well, I really have to... I struggle with that one. I have never considered or thought about that. I don't know the answer to that. That's something I'm going to have to really think about. I don't want to just tell you anything that pops into my head, but I'll have to think about that.
David Millili: After the show, when you figure it out, you can text us. Is there a secret talent that you have that nobody knows? Or most people don't know?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I don't think so. You know, I'm not as smart as people think I am. I don't have a lot of talents. I'm good at just a few things, if you ask my wife, she would tell you. And, you know, I love to run, obviously. I love to run long distance. I've done the marathon and all of that. I would not call that a talent, you know. So, I think that's about it. I mean, I dabbled in singing years and years ago and I was actually part of a group years and years ago when I was younger. So I don't know, again, if that was talent when I was doing it, but you know, I gave it a shot.
Steve Carran: Can we ask what the group was called?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Well, it was called ABC. Believe it or not, it never went anywhere. It was just some youthful, you know, adventure. But, you know, I got it out of my system, I'd say, pretty quickly.
David Millili: No problem. Well, what's on your bucket list?
Dr. Jeffrey O: My bucket list? I've got quite a few things I want to do. I want to be able to make a dent in the universe. I know to reference, you know, Steve Jobs. I want to be able to do things that impact humanity, to change the world. And obviously, I love to travel like a lot of people, but I want to be able to help with things like building an orphanage in a country that needs that, helping those who are struggling, who need help in education. All kinds of things that I'm already involved in. Charity work and I'm part of a few organizations that do such things, but I want to be able to do them on a larger scale. I want to be able to give back. I've been incredibly blessed and I think our mission in life is to improve other people's lives. Our mission is to rescue others in any way that we possibly can. And I always talk about my favorite quote by an American educator, Horace Mann, and I think we're all familiar with the quote, or at least quite a few people are familiar with the quote where he talks about: you should be ashamed to die unless you've done something good for humanity. You know, it's a quote that resonates with me, you know, high about the impact that we make on the world that we live in. We cannot just be biological beings, interested in making money, eating, and drinking, and doing all kinds of things. We have to have an impact on the people around us. We have to be able to make our world a better place, and I want to be able to contribute in any way that I possibly can. If it's through helping people get education in countries that really require that, if it's helping people get access to food, we've got a lot of food insecurity in the world that we live in today. If it's helping people with medical care, just helping in any way that I possibly can. So I want to make an impact. I want to leave a legacy. I want to help people. And I've got quite a few things I want to do. But for me, that's something that drives me. It gets me out of bed on a daily basis to want to make a difference. So not living a life that has no meaning, in my opinion. When you live a life where you haven't touched anyone else, you've lived a life that has no meaning. You only live for yourself. I want to live a life that has meaning and build a legacy, and that's so critically important to me.
David Millili: That's great. I agree. Do you have a favorite movie? A go-to movie?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Well, I've got so many great movies that I love. Oh my God, where do I even start? I've seen so many over the years. I...
David Millili: Give us a few.
Dr. Jeffrey O: I can't possibly name one movie. I'll have to name five or six. I've got so many. I could name several, right, but it's tough. I saw City of God, which is filmed in Brazil. I thought that was a great movie. It was brilliantly done. I write movie scripts in addition to writing books. So when I see a story that really resonates with me, it gets my attention. I'm currently watching one and I missed The Protégé, and it's got a few really good, you know, actresses in it. I actually started watching it two nights ago on Amazon. Very, very good. It's got Samuel L. Jackson and a few other folks in it—a great, great movie. There have been so many. I saw Zero Dark Thirty, which I thought was great. I saw the first movie that really struck me by Billy Bob Thornton, Sling Blade. I thought that was a classic. I mean, there are so many. I mean, we could spend the entire show talking about movies, and then I've got shows that I really, really like. Of course, we've got Game of Thrones. You've got Game of Thrones. You've got, uh, what's this other one from the UK? I can't remember. But still, man, there are so many great movies out and series and all of that. So it's just, it's a long list.
David Millili: If you could have a superpower, what would it be?
Dr. Jeffrey O: The power to make people a better version of themselves.
David Millili: That's good.
Dr. Jeffrey O: You just touch someone. We all have things that we're wanting to be, right? I want to be better than I am as a human being. There are things I'm working on. I'm a work in progress, right? But if I had the power to just touch someone and have them transform into a better version of themselves, the aspirational them that they want to be, I really want to be that person. I would love to have such a power. Just touch them. Boom, just like that.
Steve Carran: That's awesome.
David Millili: Great. Yeah. And this will be the last one in this portion. Give us one word that best describes you.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Passionate. Passionate. Everything that I do, I'm driven by passion, and anyone who's ever met me would tell you that. I'm just a bundle of passion. That's who I've always been. And, uh, that's me.
Steve Carran: That's awesome. Well, Jeffrey, that was great. Now we kind of want to learn a little bit more about you, your background, and kind of how you got here. Where did you grow up?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I grew up... I was actually born in Nigeria and I moved to the US many, many years ago. I came to the US to attend school and ended up just sticking around. I've been here ever since. I started out, interestingly enough, not in this industry. I studied political science as my first degree. I wanted to be a politician. I actually wanted to run for office at a high level, and that was my plan back then. I said, you know, I'm going to be in politics. I'm going to do things like running for senator, running for, you know, all kinds of things, governor, and all of that. I studied political science because I'm fascinated with all of that. And then I decided that at some point I needed to work, right, just like most of us. So I went and got a job and I was hired as a front desk agent at a property in Baltimore, a Marriott property. I took the job. I loved it, fell in love with the job, and I thought, you know, I think I'm actually good at this. You know, I'm not good at a lot of things, but I found the one thing I think I was fairly good at, and that's dealing with people, interacting with people. I've never met a stranger. Everyone that I meet, you know, I meet people... I love people. I love talking to people, interacting with people. I just fell into that—a career in hospitality, and the trajectory turned out to be very favorable for me. I went from being a front desk agent to becoming, at some point, a front desk manager, a night audit manager, a front office manager, an assistant general manager, GM, and then onto the corporate world, and now a CEO of a couple of companies as CEO and then on and on and on. So I've just been very blessed in that career. It has been remarkable for me. I love the industry and I can't imagine possibly doing anything else other than that.
Steve Carran: That's awesome. That's awesome. How did growing up in Nigeria shape you into who you are?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I think it gives me a drive. Just a drive to never quit. You know, obviously, the country is vastly different from the US. You've got a country that's very blessed with natural resources, but it's also had its fair share of issues. In some ways, you've got people who are super, super smart, highly educated. I think in looking at it... you've got, I think, Nigerians in terms of looking at Ivy League, if you look at Ivy League colleges and even at the percentage of people, you know, with graduate degrees in the US, you're going to find Nigerians easily right up there, if not at the top of the list, certainly very close to being at the top. So you've got a country that places a high premium on education. People want to educate themselves. People want to better themselves. People are very driven. They want to improve their economic situation. And I think I left with those lessons of wanting to achieve, wanting to make a difference, wanting to tap into what I perceived as my potential, never quitting, never quitting. And it taught me, you know, being born in Nigeria taught me to never quit and to have this sense of optimism that's almost... it's not reckless, but there's a sense of exuberance that I have in my life about things, about the possibilities of life and what can be achieved. And I don't see things in terms of challenges and obstacles. I always see an obstacle as something that is just temporary, something that I just have to find a way to either leapfrog or get around. And that's my mindset. I never quit. It doesn't matter what life throws at me. I never quit. And I think that's a lesson I learned from growing up.
Steve Carran: That's awesome. I love that. Jeffrey, you're on the board of directors for Hope for Three Autism Advocates. My youngest son is autistic and non-verbal. Can you tell us about some of the work that you do?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Yeah, I have not been involved frankly with Hope for Three for several years since I left Houston. I used to live in Houston. I don't know if you know that. Back then, I managed a property in Houston and I was involved with the organization, but that was several years ago. The organization does a wonderful job. Anyone who cares about children, anyone who cares about people that the world needs to pay attention to, that the world needs to respect, recognize, support, and be there for is a friend of mine. I tell you, they're doing terrific work. Obviously, they're not the only organization working with autistic kids, but that's something that's very close to my heart. And when I was involved with them, my schedule was extremely busy, but I said, this is one thing that I am going to find time for because it's important to me. Talk about making a difference. Talk about doing work that's important. That is important work. And I love to be involved with such organizations. I'm no longer involved because I'm no longer living in Houston, and obviously, I'm not able to attend meetings or be involved intricately. But, you know, it's a great organization.
David Millili: Yeah. I find a lot of similarities. My son's 13 now and dealing with a lot of teachers, there's definitely this kind of... there's a connection. Because people always say, "What does it take to be in hospitality?" You know, you're dealing with guests, you're dealing with people. Then, you know, I look at it from the viewpoint of the teachers and the aides and the people that take care of these kids. It's different, but it's similar because it's this kind of caring and kind of just looking after people in a different manner. But I just draw some similarities between the two.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Absolutely. I think you did ask me if I was not in hospitality, what would I be doing? I think if I was not in hospitality, I'd be writing full time, but I also would be teaching. You know, I love that. There's a reason why I sort of did a pivot a couple of years ago into the education side of hospitality with IHI. I wanted to be able to give back. I wanted to be able to make a difference. And I think teaching is truly a noble profession, and I wanted to be able to do more of that. That's the reason I went back to school to get my doctorate degree, just wanting to be able to help and share the little knowledge I've got with other people while also learning from them.
Steve Carran: That's awesome. So, you mentioned you'd be a writer if you weren't in hospitality. You wrote the book Dead or Alive. Where did you get your inspiration for that?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I'm a very imaginative guy. I think I've always had a very active imagination, and I always look at different angles and analyze things, connecting with people. I'm fascinated by people's stories. I tell you, my inspiration comes primarily from people. I'm the guy who's going to get in a cab or in an Uber without Uber and essentially talk the driver's head off or talk the lady's head off. She might be thinking, "Okay, shut up already." That's me. I'm not the guy who's going to be in the back of my Uber on my phone or pretending to fall asleep or not making eye contact. I'm the one who's going to chat with the driver and want to know about their kids, their wife, husband, boyfriend, family life, school, aspirations. I love to learn from people, and that feeds me. That's the oxygen that keeps me going. So, I'm inspired by people that I meet on a daily basis. I see people and I try to imagine their lives—what their lives might possibly be like—and when I write, all of that stuff comes out. So, I've written fiction. I've written non-fiction. I've written poetry. My last book was actually a book called Abraham Lincoln Is Not Dead, and I'd say it's a book of poetry that's intensely personal in many ways. So I'm fascinated by people. I love people. I love to listen to them, watch them, talk to them. I think I'm a people watcher of sorts, in a good way, and that inspires me when I decide to write about people. And I think Kirkus Reviews, which actually now is one of the two largest book reviewers in the world—they've got Kirkus Reviews, they've got Publisher's Weekly—they reviewed Dead or Alive. I think in February of this year, they did a review of Dead or Alive, and I tell you, it was a very favorable review. One of the things they talked about was the lead character of the book. They described it as a supportive, you know, character, as a character that just... they found to be a great character. And I, reading the review, that's probably the one thing I liked the most, the fact that they talked about how the character was brilliantly realized, and I was happy about it because this was coming from an organization that's known for reviewing books. And if you know them very well, they're very tough with their reviews, and it was great to have them give Dead or Alive such a favorable review and talk about the characterization in the book.
Steve Carran: Okay. Did that character, did you base him off anybody or was that just somebody you created?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Yeah, it was actually someone I made up. There are actually two characters in that book that are really fascinating. You've got one who's like the all-American hero—just a great person who went to Vietnam, served this country, came back, made a couple of billions of dollars, great looking, everyone loves him, right? That's the character. He finds himself under pressure, finds himself essentially running for his life. He finds his life in danger, right? And we all find ourselves pulling for him, rooting for him because he's such a great guy, such a great human being, a great patriot, a great human being. Then you've got the detective who's investigating those involved in this book as well. Well, we have mixed feelings about him because he's a good guy as well. He's a great guy. He's very passionate about what he does, but his metrics about achieving results are literally questionable. He doesn't mind essentially doing some things that you would say he shouldn't do in trying to get justice. So, people read the book and are conflicted about Detective Bone. His name is Detective Bone, and the character is just savage. So, people say, "Oh, we love your savvy Detective Bone. We know what he's trying to get to. We're rooting for him, but the guy's kind of... he's got baggage." You don't know what to make of him because he's a cop who's doing a great job. His heart is good. It's great. He's going to fight for the little guy. He's going to beat up the bad guy, but at times in beating up the bad guy, maybe he didn't need to punch him twice in the face, right? Maybe he could punch him in the nose and see him bleed, but that's Detective Bone. So, people are conflicted by his character, but you know, that's what makes it a book.
Steve Carran: Well, that's awesome. I appreciate that. So, now, I'd like to learn a little bit more about what your current role is. You're currently the CEO at St. Justine Hotel and Resorts. How's that going?
Dr. Jeffrey O: It's going very well. I mean, St. Justine's really... the genesis is really the origin of that. It's me looking to do... come up with a brand, an ultra-luxury brand, an uber-luxury brand that the world has not seen before, something that takes it to a different level in terms of service excellence. You've got many brands out there that are doing a terrific job, and I don't need to name them. We know who they are. But what St. Justine is looking to do is something that's sort of ahead of its time, where we're looking to deliver service on a level that's absolutely sublime, where people are blown away. You come into a hotel or a residence, and you are absolutely blown away. You say to yourself, "I have never, never seen such a service—service that's intuitive, service that's customized, that's very personal, that's so in your face, that is so dramatically different from anything you've ever experienced, or you think, 'Oh my God, it can't possibly be this good.'" And that's the origami behind St. Justine. Someone said to me recently, "What's the origin of the name?" And I said to them, I told them the story of St. Justine. St. Justine was a young lady, a virgin, who was asked to renounce her beliefs. She was a Christian. She was asked to renounce her beliefs at the point of death. I mean, you have to renounce what you believe, and if you don't renounce what you believe, you're going to get killed. So, you've got someone who was absolutely beautiful from all accounts, an absolutely beautiful young virgin girl. Absolutely beautiful. They tried to get her to renounce her beliefs, but she refused. And they said, "If you don't do it, you're going to get killed." And she absolutely paid the ultimate price and was beheaded. The point here is that St. Justine represents beauty, represents consistency, even in the face of storms, in the face of all travails and tribulations—consistency, not quitting, not backpedaling, not saying, "Okay, no, I'm going to not do that anymore because you put me under pressure." So, we wanted a brand that was going to be not only delivering beautiful properties but also delivering consistent service. There are so many brands out there that are great brands, beautiful properties, but at times, and you and I have been in some of these properties, they look very, very nice, but at times the service falls short. It's not consistent. You go to one location, and it's great. You go to another location, and it's not so great. We want properties that are incredibly beautiful but are also consistent. So, beauty and consistency—that's the origin of St. Justine.
Steve Carran: That's great. And when is the first property set to open?
Dr. Jeffrey O: We are actually looking to have four properties open in 2022. Now, the plan is to open initially with residences in 2022, and then our flagship property will open in January 2024. It will actually be ready by December 2023 but will open in January 2024. That's going to be the flagship St. Justine property. But initially, in 2022, we're going to have four residences. We're currently working on some acquisitions that will open in different parts of the world in 2022. And then in 2023, we're going to have additional residences open. Right now, in 2023, we're looking at ten residences in 2023 for this year, between now and the end of the year. And then the flagship St. Justine property will open by January 2024, actually ready by December 2023, but opening by January 2024. And then there are other deals we're currently involved in, currently working on.
Steve Carran: That's great. How is St. Justine going to differ from other luxury hotels? I know you mentioned consistency and ultra-luxury. Anything specific that we're going to see in your properties that's going to blow our socks off?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Great question. I think we're going to really infuse technology into what we do on a level that a lot of entities are currently not doing. But technology, while the brand is going to be technology-forward, is not going to take over human interaction. We don't want to have robots in our properties; that's not our goal. We're going to deploy technology, it's going to be there. You're going to have all kinds of technology, you know, advanced technology involved in terms of the room product, in terms of the smart rooms, in terms of, you know, the bed and package, the entertainment experience, the dining experience—all of that is going to be incorporated. But what's essentially going to drive any St. Justine property is the human interaction, the level that a team is willing to go to. You know, knowing your name is not just an expectation. We expect that all of our associates are going to know the names of our guests. That's a basic; that's not, you know, it's fundamental. I mean, that has to be in place. So a lot of what we're going to do will be premised on service excellence, going above and beyond, doing what other brands have not done before. In terms of the product, obviously, you're going to have the product. I can't tell you that we're going to have a product that no one else has because that would not be true. You have a lot of great-looking properties all over the world. In Asia, they've got magnificent properties. I mean, the US, you know, also the Middle East, we've got beautiful properties. The issue is not just having beautiful properties; it's having consistent service. And that's what I keep talking about. Beautiful properties anchored by consistent service delivery. So, that's ultimately what I think will be a great differentiator for St. Justine properties. You stay at a St. Justine property, you're going to have access to your private chef. You know, any demand that you could possibly want that can be fulfilled within the bounds of reason is going to be fulfilled. If it's, "I want a private helicopter to pick me up and take me to the golf course," if it's at all doable, we'll arrange it for you. So, your private chef, your private driver, your personal fitness trainer—all of that is going to be incorporated. You'll have a Butler who's going to be at your back and call. If you need any assistance, they're going to be there. You know, people talk about limo rides. If you want a private plane to come pick you up from your residence or fly you to the property, we'll arrange that. So we're going to go the distance. We're going to go to a place that a lot of people who are currently in the industry have not even imagined—not because they can't do it, but because they have not applied the effort to do it. We will apply the effort to do it. And if you look at the antecedents of the people behind St. Justine, you can see exactly why service is such an integral focus of what we do. You've got Mr. Horst Schulze, who co-founded the Ritz Carlton hotel brand, on the board of St. Justine. You've got Filip Boyen, former CEO of the Forbes Travel Guide—you know, obviously someone who knows his stuff when it comes to luxury service—on the board of St. Justine. You've got Frances Kiradjian, who's one of the top 10 most influential women in global hospitality, who runs the Luxury Boutique Association, also part of St. Justine. You've got Leticia Proctor, who is vice president at a major hotel company, who has been around for many years doing some incredible things, also a board member. And last but not least, you've got Andrea Belfanti, who is the CEO of ISHC (International Society of Hospitality Consultants), also a member of the board of St. Justine. So, you're not going to find a board anywhere in our industry that's got such an aggregate of people who have vast experience in hospitality, especially in luxury hospitality, on one board. Any of these people I've mentioned alone is highly credible by themselves, just one of them. So these are people who know their stuff, who've done it for many years, who are incredibly humble even with all the experience that they've got, all part of St. Justine. So, I'm really honored to get to work with these ladies and gentlemen, and I learn from them and share the little knowledge that I've got with the other team members in St. Justine.
David Millili: That's great. I have to ask the question because of my background, but is there a piece of technology that you're excited about that you'll be using at these properties?
Dr. Jeffrey O: Yeah, we're going to be using AI technology a lot, smart technology where you check into a hotel, you know, you have the mirror in the elevator where you want to be able to access the elevator using facial recognition technology while accessing the elevator. That's one that we think is important. In the guest rooms, being able to access all of your devices, you know, have them all keyed into alignment—all of that, your bed and package, adjusting your bed however you want and having your presets however you want. All of that. You come back to the room on another day, you know, if you like a particular room, on your return to the room on a particular day, you walk in and you get welcomed and it says, "Mr. Carran, welcome to St. Justine. I'm your virtual assistant. We're so glad to have you here." You know, all of those things, and we're going to tap fully into all of that. But again, it's going to be a technology-forward brand, but technology is only a part of what we do because I firmly believe, and I always say this, technology is a moving train. You can get in front of it or you can get inside of it. That's how I look at technology. So we want to use technology fully, but at the same time, great technology does not make great hotels. Great people make great hotels, and we never want to lose sight of that. So, we hear people talking about, "Oh, I'm going to have all of this, I'm going to have all that technology," what's often missing is the human piece. I want to check into a hotel where there is someone who is going to smile at me and say, "Good morning, good afternoon, Jeffrey. How are you doing today? How was your trip from the airport? We're glad to have you back. If you need anything at all, reach out to me. This is my phone number, this is my extension." And shake my hand and make me feel good. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a robot. I'm not looking for a machine to talk to me. You know, if I wanted that, I could just talk to Siri.
David Millili: And I say to everyone, I think it's, you know, I ran hotels, was a front desk clerk. My biggest thing is what are on the screen. Now that these front desk agents don't even look at, they don't even like look up. You walk back and forth through the lobby and have all these opportunities just exactly what you said, make a little bit of a difference. "How was your day, Mr. Millili?" or, you know, anything, just a smile, just, you know, "Everything okay?" Like that's just—that doesn't cost anything. And they're there. I was at a hotel in Miami and every time I went by the front desk, two agents were... it was a brand, it was a nice hotel, and just staring at the screen.
Dr. Jeffrey O: That is so September, you know. It breaks my heart when I hear about this, and I think of myself primarily as an evangelist for the industry, you know. Service—I believe service. I mean, that's my passion. I love that. Now, what you've mentioned resonates with me because I went to a property in DC to give a speech several years ago—a lovely property, which is going to remain unnamed. Big property, top-tier property, one of the best. And I get to this particular property, but I could barely get anyone to acknowledge me. I sat there wondering if I was invisible—maybe they couldn't see me. Maybe I am invisible. Maybe they don't see me. Maybe I don't exist, like in The Sixth Sense—the movie The Sixth Sense. Maybe I'm not really here. Maybe I'm dead. "Hey, do you see me? Hello? Hello?" And that was the experience. It was weird because here I was in this lovely property, beautifully appointed, not cheap at all in terms of pricing, and I could barely find anyone to make eye contact, let alone give me a warm, memorable welcome. So you've got a lot of hotels that have got the reputation, they've got a big name, but they don't deliver. And it's unfortunate. You've got many hotels that are doing incredible work, but it has to be consistent, right? A Big Mac has to be a Big Mac, right? It doesn't matter where you go to. And McDonald's gets it in that sense. I mean, when my kids go out and they get a Big Mac, it doesn't matter if they're getting it from Texas or from Florida or from Kentucky—it's going to be a Big Mac. And service in our industry needs to be consistent. You know, people need to at least get something. You know, if David checks into a hotel, he needs to be acknowledged. "Good morning, Mr. Millili. Welcome back. We're glad to see you. Enjoy your stay." That's not so hard to do, right? I mean, it's not asking for too much. You go to a market like Miami, super expensive. And actually one of the markets that we are looking at for St. Justine, and I tell you, Miami right now is the second most expensive real estate market in the US. There's a piece of land in Miami, in the Brickell area, that just sold for $350 million, just for the land to build a property. So we are looking at Miami, but the values are absolutely insane. I mean, they really are. And then to check into a hotel in such a city, like you experienced, and spend all that money, and you can't even get someone to be kind to you. What does it take to be kind? What does it take to say hello to someone? "Good morning. Welcome back. How's your day, Mr. Carran?" That is not so difficult, I don't think it is.
Steve Carran: That's free. That's free right there.
David Millili: It's free.
Steve Carran: That's great. So, Jeffrey, switching to your thoughts on the industry here, if I'm just starting out in hospitality, what's your advice for me?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I love that. I think people at first... someone said, "Well, you can't really learn hospitality; it has to be a gift that you have," and all of that. I differ. I don't agree with that. The fact that you couldn't learn hospitality and get better at it—I would not be involved in IHI, the International Hospitality Institute. So, what we do involves a lot of training. We train people, you know, professionals, and all kinds of things, you know, in terms of improving themselves and upskilling, reskilling themselves. To answer your question, for someone who's just getting into the industry, I would say learn as much as you can. You can't possibly go wrong with knowledge. There's no such thing as having too much knowledge. Learn as much as you can. Be prepared to learn from everyone. Don't say, "You know what? You're not my manager, I don't have to listen to you," or "You're not the general manager, I don't have to take advice from you." Keep your eyes open, keep your ears open, and be humble and learn as much as you can. I think humble people always go very far. When you're humble, people see that. I think at the end of the day, when we talk about service, we need to remember that service comes from "to serve," you know, and service requires humility. You can't really succeed in our industry to a certain extent if you're not willing to serve, you're not willing to humble yourself. Be humble and be open to learning, and always, always keep learning. Never stop learning.
David Millili: Yeah. So, we've covered a lot—what hotels are doing wrong. Is there one thing you think, as you travel, that hotels should be doing differently? Is there one thing consistently that you feel like, "Man, no matter what, everywhere I go, it's the same kind of mistake"?
Dr. Jeffrey O: We've got hotels doing really a great job overall. I should look at what's happening with COVID-19. Our industry took quite a beating, right? What a resiliency that the industry has shown. You're not going to find it in too many industries. People in our industry, they work hard and don't quit. You know, you have a hotel that's open 24 hours, right? Round the clock, you know, three shifts every day. People are constantly working, putting in a great effort. So, hotels, you know, they're resilient. They've done a really great job post-COVID. So, what I have seen makes me feel very good. Most hotels do great. You always have the few that struggle a little bit where people are not always trained properly. I think training is very important. I think we need to do a better job with training. I think a lot of people who are in the front lines... some people who are in the front line, we are not giving them their due. When we put them out there without giving them proper training, we're doing them a disservice, right? You put someone out there who is not fully trained, who is not well-trained. They don't quite know what to do. They struggle. They don't know the system, they struggle with how to interact with guests, and you put them out there to be your frontline person. And then they're nervous, they're not confident, you know? That's often a problem. So, I think we need to do a better job, period, with training. And I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. I don't think what I'm saying is controversial by any means. We need to do a better job at training the people on our front lines and equipping them for success. If we don't do that, then we're hurting our business. So many hotel companies do a great job at it. I'm not going to mention names, but some other hotel companies, there are opportunities to improve, to train people properly before putting them out there. Because if you don't do that, ultimately, you're going to turn them over. They're going to leave because if you're confident in doing your job, you're going to stand there and smile. And anything that comes at you, you're going to be able to handle it. But if you don't really know what you're doing, you don't know what buttons to press, you don't know what you're supposed to say, you stand there like a deer in headlights. And if you just stand there like a deer in headlights, then you're going to give the wrong answers. You're going to, at times, tick people off, right? Because that's not what they want to hear, and it's going to go all wrong. So, training is critically important. IHI is glad—I'm very glad to be involved in IHI, providing training to the global hospitality industry, certifications, getting people who are just entering the industry or already in the industry prepared for a future that's really robust.
David Millili: Yeah. And I have to—I told this once on our very first episode, but I have to tell it again because you can appreciate it. So, the same hotel in Miami, when I was checking out, the clerk asked if I wanted an email confirmation. A friend had made the room for me through a connection, I got the hookup, and I said, "Do you have my email?" And the front desk agent said, "That's a great question." And we had this awkward stare at each other, and he must not have known how to look up if my email was on my record. So, he said, "I'm just going to write down your email." He goes, "Tell me what your email is." And I said, "First." And he wrote down "first name." I said, "Last name." He wrote down "last name." And then I said, "NYC at Gmail," and he actually wrote it. He wrote it out, and I never got my receipt. Never got my confirmation. But, what you're just talking about—little things to train. He didn't know how to look up the email.
Dr. Jeffrey O: I can't believe that. That reminds me of the joke about someone who called the tech support line and said, "You know, my computer won't start." And the person on the other end said, "Okay, all right, turn it on, press any key." And she said, "Well, I don't see any key."
David Millili: Yeah,
Dr. Jeffrey O: "Any key, I see Q, U, W. I don't see any." That's kind of what that reminds me of—first name, last name, but Gmail.
David Millili: That's hilarious.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Training—you're absolutely right. It's all training. People are not trained properly. We put them out, then they're not fully trained, and then we wonder why they get frustrated and then leave. You know, again, many companies get it right. They are doing the right things. But you've got a few companies that have opportunities to improve.
David Millili: My guilty pleasure is cigars. So I like to have a cigar on some. And it's amazing because there's a kind of here in Phoenix, it's a vapor cigar shop. I've lived in this area or gone to that shop for three years, and no matter what employee is there, they are always polite. "What are your plans for today? What do you got going on?" You know, and it's just this consistent, and it's amazing because it's just this little, you know, vape, vape, you know, cigar shop next to a supermarket. And you're thinking like, "They can get it right, but I'm buying a, you know, $15 cigar, and I'm getting better service than spending $1,500 a couple of nights at a hotel."
Dr. Jeffrey O: It's all about training. And I think companies would really do themselves a great deal of favor by really focusing on training and training people on a daily basis. And it cannot be training as a data dump. You can't truly Bible-load things at people and expect them to memorize all of that information, you know, just training people incrementally, consistently. It makes all the difference.
David Millili: Yeah, so it might be this, but right now, you look at a platform like LinkedIn, there's a lot going on about, you know, COVID, masks, labor shortages. What do you think we're not talking about in hospitality enough on a platform like LinkedIn? I mean, maybe it could be the training, but is there something that you think that, like, you're thinking, "Why isn't somebody posting about this?"
Dr. Jeffrey O: Yeah, I think we need to do a better job of recognizing people. I think it's so important, you know. Recognizing people is so critically important. You know, it takes us back—my point takes us back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Which we all studied in college. Once you get past that food, shelter, love, and clothing, people want to be recognized. People want to be made to feel good. Ultimately, it's so important, especially in the fast-moving society that we're in. Everyone who comes into your hotel, if you work in a hotel, needs to be made to feel like a superstar, not a star, but a superstar. "We're so happy to see you. Hey, can I get that for you? Can I get you some coffee? Can I get you a drink?" You know, "What are your dinner plans for tonight?" You know, "Have you been to the area before? Here, let me show you a map, you know, check out some restaurants." We need to make people feel humanized when they come into our properties. It doesn't matter if we're having a good day or a bad day. So, and then the people who work in those hotels, we need to make them feel like a million bucks because you've got folks who are on the front lines, working every day in an operation that's 24 hours. And some of them make okay money, and some of them don't make decent wages, right? Some do make decent wages, but they're not becoming millionaires, right, from working at the front desk or cleaning rooms or, you know, serving food, right? I don't know of any person who became a millionaire because they worked at a front desk or was serving food. You know, "I was busing tables, and now I'm sitting on $1 million in my 401k." You're not going to find that for the most part. We're not saying that people need to be paid a million dollars to bus tables. That's not the point, right? Because of the economics involved in all of that, we get that. But we need to recognize the heck out of people. There is no good deed that's done that we should not recognize. We should shout every good deed from the rooftop. We should recognize people. We should make them feel good about what they do. I mean, I remember I used to run a property in Houston years and years ago. I tell you, one of the things I loved to do was whenever any of my team members received an accolade from a guest—either a comment card that was favorable or was mentioned in Medallia, the guest service tracking system, or TripAdvisor—I took my management team, I went over to that team member, just walked up to them, and we didn't say anything, we just started clapping. You know, people would turn red, people would be like, "Oh my God." You know, guests would see this happening, and people loved that. It was awkward. It was embarrassing as heck, but they loved it. We need to take time to recognize people. People who are in our industry, we can possibly not recognize them too much. So we need to recognize them, and every day we need to start every day as leaders running hotels with a pep rally type deal.
Steve Carran: Yeah.
Dr. Jeffrey O: We should, every morning, get everyone together, you know, five minutes. Hey, you know, gets everyone all pumped up. It's like a football team. Football coaches have about two minutes in the locker room with the team members, getting everyone fired up. Every day, we need to do that, and we don't need to only do that pep rally or huddle once a day. We need to do it before every shift. If you're doing it for the morning shift, you get your team members all pumped up, and they go out there and deliver great, great results. Then the afternoon shift comes in, you do the same thing, on a night shift, you do the same thing. People need their recognition. They need to be recognized. You need to thank them. Thank them for their work. We don't have to give them an award. We don't have to pin a medal to their jacket, but we need to show that we appreciate their effort, and that's only going to make them work a little bit harder.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. And then, kind of one question into the future here—not quite too far into the future, but how do you think the metaverse is going to affect hospitality?
Dr. Jeffrey O: I think it's something that we need to pay attention to. You've got a couple of companies already that have hotels, right, in the metaverse that are coming up with that. I haven't explored it for myself; I haven't explored it for St. Justine, not for IHI. I haven't done any of that, but I think it's here to stay. I think some folks who are not very familiar with the workings of all of that, right, the virtual worlds and things, they're not used to that, they don't do it on a daily basis, so at times they're quick to be dismissive. There were people who thought that Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and Snapchat were just a fad. People thought that stuff was going to be gone in a day. Well, here we are, right? Twitter just got sold for, I don't know, $44 million, billion dollars or whatever. You know, look at Facebook. I remember when Facebook came out and they went public. You know, there were many who were skeptical, frankly. I always have to go back to that time. I remember back then, I'm going to be very candid.
Steve Carran: Yeah.
Dr. Jeffrey O: I said, "Oh, Facebook, who's going to use that?" I remember having a conversation with someone about YouTube. I said, "Who's going to be posting videos on their website? I mean, really? YouTube? What's that about?" Now, here we are. Right? We cannot be left behind. Again, technology is like a moving train. You can get in front of it, or you can get inside of it. And I think in the hospitality space, we need to maximize the use of the metaverse. We need to look at virtual reality. We need to look at any technology that we can possibly deploy to advance our industry. There are other industries that are looking at it, so why wouldn't we look at it? So, I think the metaverse is going to play a big role. You've got a lot of conversations now about, you know, tokenization that's going on, right? There's a lot of that happening, and, you know, NFTs and all of that. It's an area I think is here to stay, and people who don't know that, they're going to find out in a few years from now that they're the ones missing out. That stuff is not going anywhere. It's like Bitcoin. Bitcoin came out, and people said, "Oh, Bitcoin? Oh, come on. I'm not spending my money on that." Now, you've got people who've made millions and billions from Bitcoin. I mean, it goes up, and it goes down. But look at it. I mean, back in 2013, Bitcoin... no one cared. People were not fooling around with Bitcoin; they were not. Right? And now here we are. So, I think the metaverse has a huge role to play and is going to play that role. And I think people in hospitality need to wake up to that. It's not going anywhere. It's going to be here to stay.
David Millili: Yeah, we have to get ahead of it. We're going to have, probably next month, a good friend of mine, Michael Cohen, who's really kind of... he's with Hugo Virtual, and he's kind of a VR and metaverse expert. So, I try to read his stuff and the articles he's posting on LinkedIn, because I'll be the first to admit, I kind of get it, but I don't get it. So, I need to learn and educate myself. And like you said, I think in the past, some of us have tried to learn from some of those mistakes when, you know, you said, "Oh, how would Facebook ever help my hotel?" Or "How would Instagram ever help my hotel?" And then you're behind. And then it's too late. And the ones, the early adopters, and the ones who educate themselves kind of prevail and get ahead.
Dr. Jeffrey O: So true.
David Millili: And I hope people are listening because you're the technology guy. And if you were sitting here saying, "Listen, I need to educate myself. There's a lot I need to learn about the metaverse," that's humility. That's what I'm talking about, knowing that there's a lot we don't know. We have to always stay curious. There's a lot we don't know. But there are people who are going to go, "Oh, I'm a technology guy," and all of that. But here you are, you're a technology guy, you've run technology companies, and you know that there's a lot you still need to learn about this new world that we're all exploring. That's humility. And that's the attitude I think we all need to have. And I think at times, we don't realize that. So thanks for saying that.
David Millili: Oh, no problem. Yeah, I'm pretty humble. I try to surround myself with people that are smarter than me. Like that, I let them do, you know, as you talked about Steve Jobs earlier, I mean, that's my mantra: I hire smart people to tell me what to do. I don't hire smart people for me to tell them what to do, because then why did you hire them? It doesn't make any sense.
Dr. Jeffrey O: I mean, this is a good example of Steve and David. You know, I took the call—I thought it was going to be at a different time. I had the time wrong, and I was on the call sitting there waiting, and I said, "There's no one here. There's nobody." And then...
Steve Carran: When I saw your Steve, myself, it was my mistake. I was the one who screwed up. I was the one who had the wrong time. It wasn't you. I owe you an apology.
Steve Carran: You don't owe us an apology. You're getting...
Dr. Jeffrey O: I couldn't figure it out.
David Millili: Yeah, Steve, John, and I, we were all freaking out. We were all like, "What?" And then I have it worse because I'm in Phoenix. And so, we don't do daylight savings here. So half of the year, I'm on Pacific time, and I'm three hours behind New York, and then half of the year, I'm an hour ahead of LA, California, and I'm two hours behind New York. And so it always... you know, and I've been here for years, but I'm still not getting used to it. But anyway, but no, we really appreciate you. We're glad you were able to accommodate with the right time. And, you know, before we finish up, that was our last question. Is there anything that you want to tell us about that's up and coming? Anything you want to plug or share? Some things that are happening with you that we can share with you.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Thank you. We've got several things going on. Obviously, I talked a bit about St. Justine and all the plans we've got. You're going to be hearing some major announcements in the next few months about, you know, new developments. St. Justine is really excited about that and all that's happening. On the IHI side, you know, we have a lot of things always happening on the IHI side. We recently completed the Global Hospitality Awards, which is quite a big deal in the industry, recognizing people from all over the globe who are doing great work in the hospitality space. So, we've got some other things coming up. I mean, IHI, you know, has several more courses being rolled out, certification programs, partnerships with different entities in different parts of the world that we've got happening. And one thing that's going to be happening that I'm really excited about, you're going to see, is a global customer service index type deal that's going to recognize companies that are the best performers in delivering hospitality globally. You're going to be seeing that. So, you're talking about restaurants, hotels, hospitals, entities that provide services that have that one-on-one interaction with their clientele. And we're going to have that global index that's going to track companies by hospitality customer service excellence. So, you're going to see that. We're currently working on that. It's a pretty massive project because it's not only in the US, it's global, and you've got a ton of companies that are being looked at. So, it's a pretty big deal that we're working on. It's going to take several months, but it's currently being worked on. So, I'm excited about that. You know, my passion again is service, and I see myself as a service evangelist, and anything that recognizes people who are doing great, being kind to others, and spreading the spirit of hospitality—that touches my heart. So, I'm very passionate about all of that.
Steve Carran: Thanks for coming on. I love the passion that's coming through and just the positivity. I'm having a better day after this podcast, I'll be honest with you. So, thanks so much for coming on, Jeffrey. This was awesome.
David Millili: Yeah, we hope to see you in person sometime soon. I really appreciate it, you know, you taking the time. And that wraps up our episode of The Modern Hotelier presented by Stay Flexi. And again, Jeffrey, thank you so much. We really appreciate it, and everyone, be safe.
Dr. Jeffrey O: Thank you, David. You're very kind. Steve, thank you. I appreciate you. Thank you.