Creating and Marketing Experiential Hospitality & Unique, Luxury Stays | with Ben Wolff

The Modern Hotelier #71: Creating and Marketing Experiential Hospitality & Unique, Luxury Stays | with Ben Wolff === Steve Carran [00:00:00]: We are really excited about this conversation with Ben Wolf from Anera. David, what were some of your favorite things from this episode? David Millili [00:00:07]: Yeah. It was, it was kind of like a super, super independent type experience, episode. The properties that they have were amazing. The thought that goes into it, the idea of, you know, he talked about Ben talked about being connected to nature. So what I loved about it was it was this kind of, you know, how do you really make sure that the also, the the staff is enhancing the stay, not taking away from it. 100%. Steve Carran [00:00:32]: In in a kind of a time where independents have been getting bought up more and more by brands, Ben's going the opposite way and almost doing a super experiential stay where it is almost super independent, you know, smaller staff sizes to have that closer relationship with the guest and, you know, really focusing on not only the experiences, but those experiences that increase the guest experience. I loved it. Enjoy the episode and let us know what you think. David Millili [00:00:58]: Alright. Enjoy it. Welcome to the Modern Hotelier. Both hosts were honored as top 100 influential people in hospitality. We're bringing you interviews with industry experts, thought leaders, and innovators who are shaping the future of hospitality. Whether you're a seasoned hotel professional or just stepping into the industry, Voice Over [00:01:24]: Hotelier you going to high-tech or commercial strategy conference in Charlotte? Are you looking to create content or amplify your voice while you're there? The Modern Hotelier can help. The Modern Hotelier is the leading source of hospitality industry insights, helping hoteliers navigate today's ever changing landscape. Our team will be in Charlotte doing live interviews with exhibitors and attendees. We're excited to connect with industry experts and thought leaders of the hospitality space. If you're interested in meeting the modern hotelier team, send us a message on LinkedIn or email Steve at the modern Hotelier. David Millili [00:02:04]: Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran [00:02:06]: Yeah, David. Today, we have on Ben Wolf. Ben is the cofounder and developer of Anera, a luxury treehouse resort in Texas Hill Country. His experiential hospitality firm, OAC, develops and manages a portfolio of landscape resorts, boutique hotels, and luxury retreats. Prior to Onero, Ben grew Blink Hospitality, a short term rental management company from 8 to 200 units under management in less than 2 years. Welcome to the show, Ben. Ben Wolff [00:02:39]: Great to be here. Thanks for having me on, guys. David Millili [00:02:41]: Alright. So, Ben, we're gonna go through a couple different areas. We're gonna give you lightning round questions, talk about your background, get into your career, and then get into industry topics. Sound good? Ben Wolff [00:02:51]: Love it. Let's do it. David Millili [00:02:52]: Alright. What was your first job? Ben Wolff [00:02:54]: First job, camp counselor. David Millili [00:02:56]: What's your favorite city? Ben Wolff [00:02:57]: Right now, it's Austin. David Millili [00:02:59]: What's the best piece of advice you've received? Ben Wolff [00:03:02]: Continuing to hire better people. So, you know, I mean, for a while, I was hustling and, yeah, just leveling up the team. David Millili [00:03:08]: So if you could trade places with someone for a day, who would you trade places with? Ben Wolff [00:03:12]: Anthony Edwards. David Millili [00:03:14]: Okay. Let's give us something that's on your bucket list. Ben Wolff [00:03:18]: Playing golf at, Augusta. David Millili [00:03:20]: What's a secret talent you have that most people don't know you have? Ben Wolff [00:03:24]: I was a painter when I was a kid. I haven't done it in a while, but yeah. If you David Millili [00:03:28]: had your own late night talk show, who would your first guess be? Ben Wolff [00:03:32]: I would say Jeff Bezos. I'm kinda, like, fascinated by him right now. Just customer obsession. David Millili [00:03:39]: Alright. Last one for this round. If you had a time machine and you can go to the future or the past, which way are you going and which year are you going to? Ben Wolff [00:03:49]: Definitely the future, 10 years out. I feel like far enough so I can kinda see what's coming and and really understand how it got there, but not, you know, so far that that it's hard to even piece it together. Steve Carran [00:04:01]: That's great. And and you sold yourself short on your first job because you were a camp counselor of the year in 2009. So, you know, make sure we put that in there as well. He wasn't only a camp counselor. He was the best of the best. Ben Wolff [00:04:16]: Yeah. That that was actually at my 2nd camp counselor job. My, my my brother my brother's autistic, and I I I worked at his camp. And growing up with a sibling that had autism, I I had a a leg up from the other counselors in terms of, you know, how to handle and work with the kids. Steve Carran [00:04:32]: That's awesome. Well, that was good. Now we're gonna learn a little bit more about your personal background. Kinda what makes you tick a little bit. So you grew up in Woodbridge, Connecticut. Is that right? Ben Wolff [00:04:42]: That's right. Yeah. Just right outside New Haven. Steve Carran [00:04:45]: Beautiful. So how did growing up in Woodbridge shape you into who you are today? Ben Wolff [00:04:51]: It's a good question. I think that, you know, it's interesting. When when we moved to Woodbridge, my dad had just he was he was the COO of a a lighting, distributor, and that company got bought out. So they had an exit, and I saw our lifestyle change dramatically. And this was, you know, I was, like, 11 or 12 years old, pretty impressionable, and I think that it really turned me on to business and and what what business can do. So, yeah, I mean, it was probably that started my interest in business, and, you you know, I became interested in entrepreneurship and and trying to, you know, start something on my own as as early as my mid to late teens. David Millili [00:05:32]: Right. Good segue here. You graduated from NYU Stern School of Business with management and economics degree. Was that part of the reason why you went down that path, or what was the reason why you you you went to those majors? Ben Wolff [00:05:43]: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I, when I was looking at colleges, I only looked at schools that had undergraduate business programs. And looking like, I didn't know what I didn't know, but looking back, you know, I might have applied to a bunch of Ivy League schools and other schools that had economics that still give you a great leg up in the business world, but I was so laser focused on wanting to learn about business that, you know, I kind of narrowed the search to schools that focused on that and and schools that had minors and sort of specializations in entrepreneurship. So, yeah, I mean, NYU NYU was, you know, awesome in terms of a business school standpoint. It was also awesome to be in New York City and have access to, you know, all these different companies, you know, internships. And really, I was there when Silicon Alley was kind of taking off, and the New York City tech scene was really blowing up. Like, when Foursquare was in its heyday, you know, Twitter was in its heyday, Uber was just starting out. Ben Wolff [00:06:40]: So I was interested in technology startups and potentially being a, you know, consumer tech entrepreneur, but I wasn't a developer. And, you know, I actually did an independent study around non tech founders in tech and found out that typically the people that were non tech, like, had a roommate or some unique circumstance that, like, allowed them to be a successful non tech founder in tech. So I kinda moved away from that after a a couple of of failed ventures in on the consumer tech side. Steve Carran [00:07:10]: That is awesome. And and while you're at NYU, you cofounded it, and you're the president of Tech at NYU. And this is still around today and going strong. What is tech at NYU? And how did you get the idea for this, by the way? Ben Wolff [00:07:24]: Yeah. So it was around what what I was saying. Right? There was this influx of technology companies to New York, and it was this group of us that were really interested in the space and technology, a lot of actually engineers and developers, some of us more business focused people. Techstars had just come to New York. General Assembly, like, was just starting up, and we knew, like, Matt Breimer and, you know, Brad Hargraves and some of the people that were really influential in the space. So we would bring in speakers, help the students get connected to them, help set them up with internships. So, yeah, it was just a a great way to connect the tech community in New York City and the startup community with the students at NYU. Steve Carran [00:08:03]: That's great. So now we got your background a little bit. Now we're gonna go into your career and how you got to where you are today. So after you graduated from NYU, you went to McKinsey as a business analyst, then you went to Senseday for business development. Was Senseday your first time in hospitality or on the project management side, or how did you get into that? Ben Wolff [00:08:26]: So SenStay definitely got me into vacation rentals and Airbnb. Right? Airbnb was really early. We actually launched a boutique hotel on Airbnb as well in San Francisco with that company. And the founder of Sense8, Jesse, is actually my partner today in Ewassee. So things kind of, you know, come come full circle there. But I would say that was my introduction to hospitality real estate. I had done actually quite a bit of quite a bit of event production and promotion working with local venues even as early as college. And so I consider that in the broader bucket of hospitality, so that that's where I really feel like I got my initial start. David Millili [00:09:02]: That's great. So following Zen Stay, you're a director at Quid and then cofounder and CEO of Blink Hospitality. What did you learn from those two roles that helped you today? Ben Wolff [00:09:13]: So Quidd was a natural language processing software for text analytics, and we were selling actually into consulting firms. So I was selling into groups that similar to what I was working at at McKinsey. BCG was actually our biggest client, I think we had an exclusive, so I we couldn't actually sell to McKinsey, which is kind of funny. But I would say on the quid side, it was I think that's the first place that I hired a really good virtual assistant, actually, which I really took with me in my current, you know, role, and and we've hired a ton of amazing people offshore. So that was one of the the best experiences I had there. Also had experience at Quid rolling out a new product feature, which I think certainly relates to to some of the things that I do today and sales, like, some formal kind of sales training and and work. So that's on the quid side. And with Blink Hospitality, I mean, that was my short term rental management company. Ben Wolff [00:10:08]: You know, it was growing my portfolio of of Airbnbs, continuing to sort of improve my hospitality management skills and chops, building out a team, learning how to best leverage my time with offshore talent, with local staff as well. So, yeah, that was my first real experience building out a team and starting to kind of scale a business. Right? We went from 8 units to 200 in 18 months, and it was distributed across, like, 12 different cities. So figuring out how to manage a remote team and and stand up new markets and and all that. Steve Carran [00:10:44]: I gotta jump in here. You mentioned the virtual assistant. I know a lot of people are use using virtual assistants or are either looking for them. What qualities do you look for in a virtual assistant that makes a successful virtual assistant? Ben Wolff [00:10:57]: I would with a lot of our employees, we're looking for a high urgency and low anxiety, if possible, and high conscientiousness. Right? So we have an extremely high sense of urgency at Owasi and at Owen at Onera. And I think that's super important for a young growing startup. I've been told I have a nauseating sense of urgency by my cofounder and some other people. So, you know, that that's something that I feel like you kind of either have or you don't. So when we're looking to hire new people, we're always looking for that. And then conscientiousness. Right? Like, an an accountability or responsibility to put out good work, right, to do good or even great work and not to, you know, just kinda tick the boxes. Ben Wolff [00:11:40]: And, certainly, at that level, it's also being able to follow directions, follow SOPs. For us, there's a lot of customer interfacing. So, you know, how good is their English? Right? How sort of amenable and and, you know, from a personality standpoint, how do we think they're gonna mesh with our guests and and enhance that experience? So those are those are just some of the things we look for, and we have a pretty robust hiring process now. It did not always used to be that way, but we have a numerical reasoning test they do. They do an initial loop video where they answer a few questions so we can see if they can follow directions and how their English is. And then there's a series of of about 3 interviews before we make the decision to hire. And even after all of that, sometimes we get it wrong. And we we actually had somebody that interview amazing. Ben Wolff [00:12:29]: We thought she was gonna be know, management material, so great, and we ended up having to let her go on her 1st day just because came in, and it was very clear that it was, like, she was more, you know, me focused than team focused. And, a lot of the things she said in the the initial interview drastically changed on day 1. So, you know, I've learned that over my years, hire slow, fire fast, you know, rip the Band Aid off. But, yeah, that applies at every level, guest comms up to, you know, senior leadership. David Millili [00:12:58]: So in 2020, you became managing partner of Oneira Capital and then cofounder of Oneira. What made you interested in the first place in just the alternative lodging concept? A lot of people get drawn into more boutique hotels and traditional lodging. What what drew you into the alternative lodging? Ben Wolff [00:13:14]: I I would say it was it's really three factors. So, I mean, one was COVID. So COVID hit, and our urban STR business really took a beating. And the things that were, you know, continuing to sort of accelerate in terms of growth was this alternative hospitality, outdoor hospitality, but there was already a trend of that before COVID. And Jesse, who I mentioned before, who founded Senseday, after Senseday, he actually bought this compound out in Joshua Tree, Beautiful piece of property, Joshua trees, boulders, really an amazing place to meditate, get get in touch with nature. And he had all these unique stays on the property. So Airstream, converted bus, garage, and this was, like, you know, 2016, 2017, 2018, so very early. And he was doing incredible numbers, you know, at at that time. Ben Wolff [00:14:02]: And so, you know, I was kind of turned on to that, and that kind of opened my eyes. And then the final piece was me and my wife did a road trip around the southwestern US, and we hit, like, a dozen national parks inside of 6 weeks and reinfell re fell in love with the great outdoors. I lived in New York City for a dozen years, but did not fall in love with the issues we encountered with the RV. Right? Like, compartment breaking, you know, having to call mobile mechanics, all of this friction with the experience. And so the idea with Oneira was we wanna do something higher end, more luxury, all the comforts of home, and then some inspiring structures. And it felt like there was a gap in the market. Right? There was all this mid tier product, AutoCamp, Undercanvas, Getaway, even, like, a value offering, and nothing in this kind of higher end, more inspiring, more amenities and comforts of home. So that's where we wanted to go with Oneira. Steve Carran [00:15:03]: That's awesome. And and the guest experience there, we'll get into, but it just looks incredible. But and 2 years ago, you cofounded is it Oasi? Ben Wolff [00:15:11]: Oasi. Correct. Steve Carran [00:15:12]: Oasi. Yes. And there you develop and manage portfolios that that cater to the modern travelers. Those that are kind of looking for these one out of one experiences. Can you tell us more about this? Ben Wolff [00:15:26]: Of course. Yeah. So at Ewassee, you know, we're relentlessly focused on the customer, and the customer archetype is what you mentioned, the modern traveler. And the modern traveler wants memorable experiences. Right? And that this whole trend of experiential travel, they want shareable moments, you know, things that that inspire them and that they wanna share with their network and their audience, and they wanna feel a connection to the property, to the founder, you know, to the origin story. And that kinda leads into something that we're really focused on and I'm really focused on, which is building in public and sharing our story with the world and kind of building a fan base and enrolling people in the movement, both our guests and our supporters. And I think it's a very new way of doing business. And it's in general, there's this idea of we wanna collaborate with our guests and make them, like, a part of what we're doing as opposed to purely transacting with them. Ben Wolff [00:16:24]: And I feel like for a long time, hospitality has been very transactional in some ways. Right? It's convenience. It's heads in beds. It's loyalty rewards points. You know, if you're if you're a higher status, I'm gonna treat you better. I mean, there's there's nothing in my mind more transactional than that. So is there a way that we can treat all guests with that exceptional kind of customer experience and make them feel special, right, and make them feel a part of what we're doing, which I think is pretty fresh and unique and different from, you know, the vast majority of of hotels and hospitality product out there, including Airbnbs and short term rentals, which are new and in a lot of cases have become more institutionalized. There's more kind of corporations doing that now, and they become more sterile, more commoditized. Ben Wolff [00:17:13]: So you stand out if you're unique, differentiated, and focus on the experience. Steve Carran [00:17:18]: Absolutely. That was great. So now we're gonna get more into the industry thoughts, and we're talking about the guest experience already and you know, you're, you have a unique property. It's obviously a unique experience. How can hotels be focused more on the guest? And, you know, how can you stay ahead of the you know, the guest expectations are constantly changing. Right? Now we're on experiences. How are you staying ahead of that curve? Ben Wolff [00:17:43]: Yeah. So I I think there's something important there around we do a lot on social media. Right? So we we produce a lot of high quality content. It's very engaging, and there's always this challenge of if your content's amazing, your product also needs to be amazing. So it's almost sometimes hard to meet those expectations. But I will say that building in public, being founder led, customers feel much more connected to you and and to the brand. And so they wanna be supportive, I would say, in a lot of ways. And you can kinda see this when you look at the review scores of, like, Oneira versus a a big brand hotel. Ben Wolff [00:18:19]: You know, their operation may be tighter than ours, but we have a higher score because there's a sense of connection that the guest feels to us. And I think that's something that's, like, you can do at any level, right, regardless of how small you are. You can be founder led. You can sort of open up under the hood a little bit so guests can feel connected to what you're doing. And, typically, they reward you in reviews, and they just they feel better about the stay. It's not like they're just giving you better reviews because they like you. They feel better about the stay because there's a connection to it. There's an authenticity. Ben Wolff [00:18:52]: And, yeah, we're we're seeing that across all businesses. Right? Even if you look at massive corporations and and massive brands, the biggest out there, like Apple, you know, Airbnb, some of these massive brands, their CEOs have, you know, 10 x. I mean, look at Tesla and Elon Musk. Right? Like, orders of magnitude more of a following and more influence than the brand. And what we say internally is that people love people, they like brands, and they typically detest businesses. So the more we can be closer to people focused and then, you know, following that brand focused, the better. David Millili [00:19:28]: So last week, you posted about the modern word-of-mouth marketing. I'm a guy who grew up in independent hotels mostly and then selling into independent hotels. How do you feel really not just hotel, but, let's say, alternative accommodation. How's marketing just changed in general for hospitality and for properties trying to get guests to to go to them? Ben Wolff [00:19:50]: Oh, I think a big one is is the building in public and kind of founder led that I was just talking about. An another one is something I said early on around the modern traveler. Make your product shareable. If it's shareable, then your guests do the marketing for you. And and the word-of-mouth today is posting a story, you know, posting a reel on Instagram, and it doesn't have to be from an influencer that has tens or 100 of thousands of followers. It can be, you know, sometimes, you know, those those guests that create their own user generated content and and they post on social, they have the most engaged audience with the most authority because it's all their friends. Right? So even if it's a very small audience, they're doing this this marketing for you, and I think that's really special. So if you can create something that they feel inspired and compelled to share, then you have the potential to go viral and and a lot of your marketing gets done for you. Steve Carran [00:20:45]: And I'm curious about, you know, the traditional staffing model that, know, used to be a front desk, used to check-in and things like that when, you know, back in the day when I was selling technology. People didn't want mobile check-in because they thought people wanted to stand and wait in line for the front desk. Has that changed? Is there a new model? I I mean, now everybody can check-in on their phone and things like that, but how are you incorporating kind of that updated or newer hotel staff model into into your properties? Ben Wolff [00:21:15]: Yeah. So we are definitely leaning into, again, this idea of collaboration and less of a transactional experience. And there's also a sense of, like, more intimacy and co and seclusion with your stay so that you can reconnect to your loved one, feel like you're in your own little private bubble. And and sometimes staff can be counter to that goal of creating that intimate experience. So we still definitely need staff, and and we've actually changed some views on this, and this goes back to hiring better people. We've, in some cases, close to doubled our target salaries for our on-site staff. Because we have fewer of them, we need the people that we do have to be absolutely exceptional. And we also have staff housing on-site so that we can pull from a broader pool. Ben Wolff [00:22:02]: And so there's a even more of a connection to the property and a a pride in having the best environment and and product that we can. So those are some of the things we do on the staffing side, but, you know, let me ask you guys. Like, do you like the front desk experience? Right? Is that something that that you enjoy? David Millili [00:22:18]: Hey. Wait. That's later it's later in the program you get to ask us a question. Oh, okay. Okay. Alright. No. No. David Millili [00:22:22]: But Right. I'll say that I'll I'll say, you know, just real quick because, you know, it was one of my, you know, most viewed LinkedIn posts. But, you know, citizen m does a great job where you don't feel like you're missing anything. Like, you especially if you're somewhat of a seasoned traveler. Like, I can see it's like your one trip, and it's your first time, say, in London and you're kinda confused. But for me, it was like, man, I took the red eye from Phoenix to Heathrow. Boom. Checked myself in, made myself a key, and I got right down to the bar to get a drink and something to eat. David Millili [00:22:51]: And the conversation with the bartender was great and the staff. I didn't need the person to ask me if I was checking in or ask me, you know How Ben Wolff [00:22:58]: how you're checking in? London. David Millili [00:23:00]: Yeah. That's my favorite thing. My the favorite it's like a comedy schedule when you walk up to the front desk and you've got your bags and it's 9 o'clock at night, and they're like, are you checking in? And it's like, no. I'm just, like, taking a lap around my neighborhood with my bags to build up, you know, my biceps. So, anyway, so that's that's my answer. Ben Wolff [00:23:14]: Yeah. And then, Steve, what what about you? Steve Carran [00:23:16]: One of my favorite products I sold is mobile check-in. Right? And I just remember, like, going to Las Vegas to these conferences. And you get there. You're excited to go to Vegas, go to stay in this beautiful hotel. And the first thing you have to do is stand in the line for about 30 to 45 minutes just because, you know, then you're going through the ropes and everything. But I hate standing in lines. I am just like David. Let me check-in. Steve Carran [00:23:39]: We both love CitizenM, but, like, let me check-in and get get moving. Right? So I think we have the same the same opinion on that one. Ben Wolff [00:23:46]: Yeah. Yeah. A 100%. And and I think what David was talking about too, like, that the person and I think I'll even go a step further even when they're, like, trying to be nice. Like, how was your trip? It's, like, 9 o'clock at night. I just want my key. I don't wanna talk. Like, can we just, you know, move it along? So, you know, we're we're trying to remove any of that. Ben Wolff [00:24:02]: We're actually staffing can kind of take away from the experience, and it has the side benefit of of we don't need as much staff and, you know, we we can hire fewer, better a players, right, that that do kind of run behind the scenes and and make sure things run efficiently and smoothly. And, you know, there's quality control of the units in between turnovers, and, you know, guests can feel cared for and and thought after, but we're not in their face. We're not, you know, housekeeping daily, like, that kind of stuff. Right? It's just try to remove the inconvenience and make it more intimate, secluded, and and really, you know, collaborative. And your connection is with, you know, it's with me, it's with my team, you know, and it's with the property. And the staff interactions you do have, we hope, are warm and friendly and not, like, overly deferential. I feel like that's also an old old world hospitality thing. We want people to feel welcomed and warm when they interact with staff and not like the staff can't look them in the eye. Ben Wolff [00:25:00]: So that's how how we look at it, and we think, you know, that's what the modern traveler wants. Steve Carran [00:25:04]: And kinda to that point is I've traveled where to these properties that do have smaller staff. You get to know the staff when you're traveling, and it's a more personal experience than when you see, you know, you see Bill, who's been here, you know, helping you out through your host day. Like, you get just to get to know these people and the culture and differences differentiates from where you come from. So I love that into all increasing the guest experience. David Millili [00:25:27]: So what advice would you give, say, somebody's in the traditional hospitality world, hotel world, someone who's deciding they wanna go into the alternative lodging? And what advice would you give to somebody, you know, some pitfalls or things to look out for if they were kinda gonna go that route? Ben Wolff [00:25:44]: I mean, the big thing is which is so hard to do if that's the world you come from, but just because it's been done one way for a long time doesn't mean that's the right way to do it. You know, I think that that's and and that's one of the the things that we're bringing, like, a very fresh perspective to developing hotels, to marketing them, to to operating them. So it's it's being willing to to listen to outsiders and and people new to a space that may have a different way of of looking at things, but there can be a lot of value in that. So some some things that I think, you know, old world hospitality can can think about, Really think about, you know, working with a social media and marketing group that understands highly engaging content and, you know, how to work with influencer marketing, how to, you know, use highly engaging content and then transform that into ads that perform extremely well. Right? And I think there's we've tried to hire agencies to do this and and have had a lot of challenges. So it's actually you know, Ewasi has, you know, services that we offer to third parties as well. We're not we're not only, you know, managing our own properties, though our own properties do make up a a big piece of our portfolio. And that's also good because we're owners, so we understand what matters. Ben Wolff [00:27:01]: And, like, ultimately, you're trying to drive bookings. It's not just about, you know, whatever social media KPIs. You know, it's not just about that. It's also about bookings. So, you know, that's what we think about. That's what we've been able to do at at Oneera, for example. We are on a month over month basis, we're now over 80% direct bookings. Like, last month, we were 88%, and and we're we're charging the same. Ben Wolff [00:27:24]: We're not discounting. We're charging the same as we as on the OTAs and just basically scooping that 14%, you know, after 3% payment processing fee because typically, like, Airbnb is 17% when you when you add up the 2, guest and host side. So I I think that, you know, a lot of times old world hospitality is a little locked into the the vast majority. Of your bookings are gonna come from OTAs or maybe, like, through the flag. That would be another thing I would push. Like, is it maybe a better idea to go independent? You don't have to live in the world of of the brand standards and, you know, the things that maybe the brand or flag thinks are important, but you can lean into, you know, more experiential, more unique amenities, things like that, and spend your money there. And you're not as constrained sometimes as as you are with a flag. And I think that more and more travelers appreciate lifestyle brands, appreciate independent brands. Ben Wolff [00:28:17]: You know, can you put a person out front and center, you know, as part of your brand? Like, I was talking about with founder led, if guests can connect a person to the story of the property, that can be very powerful and allow you to grow your social media following much bigger, higher engagement. So, yeah, those are just some initial ideas, but a lot of it is on the branding and marketing side. Steve Carran [00:28:40]: You're obviously a pretty forward thinking person. You and your partner have come up with these pretty pretty new age concepts. What do you see for the future of hotel innovation and in the future of travel? Ben Wolff [00:28:52]: I have one hot hot take that I've talked about, you know, in a few other areas, and that's that I really believe Instagram is going to be the the biggest booking platform by 2030. I mean, we're already seeing how much more impactful it is from our standpoint. Right? It's the shareability. It makes it so easy for people to do your marketing for you and and sort of spread the word. It's more engaging of an experience. You get to see a property from all these different angles and video content instead of just static photos. And it's it's a more enjoyable experience for a traveler too. Right? You're you're you're you're kind of high in a sense. Ben Wolff [00:29:29]: Right? When you're a traveler on looking on Instagram, you know, looking at these amazing experiences as opposed to, you know, if you go to Airbnb or Booking dotcom, I mean, there's just all these static listings. It's a much different experience, and I think it's actually better for both the guest and for the the hotel because the Hotelier, you have a what we call an aspirational buyer. They're not price sensitive. Right? They're connected emotionally. They're not price shopping. Right? So that's better for the hotel, and it's also just a better, more enjoyable experience for the guests. So I think that's that's one area, hopefully less reliant on OTAs, the ability for hotels to go direct if they do branding and social media and digital marketing well. So that's one area I think that we're gonna continue to hopefully see more build in public and and founder led and sort of people led brands. Ben Wolff [00:30:22]: I think those are gonna be the ones that succeed. So the more that Hotelier can lean into that, I think the better off they'll be, and the more, you know, they'll be able to outperform the market. Those are some initial ideas on future. Steve Carran [00:30:34]: I love that. So you already asked us a question, but that's alright. Now we're gonna actually turn the tables and let you ask us one more one question for for David and I here. Yeah. Ben Wolff [00:30:44]: So I asked you about front desks. I'm curious from other guests that that you guys have on. Who do who are, like, the the top, you know, 2 or 3 innovators that you've talked to in the space? And and if you don't wanna give specific names, maybe just the top 2 or 3 ideas that you've heard in the past 3 to 6 months of of how travel is changing? Steve Carran [00:31:05]: Yeah. I can take this one first. I mean, one of the guests that really sticks out for me as far as innovation and kind of the future of travel was, Stuart Greiff that we had on from Forbes. He you know, just from his conversation with us and kind of where he was able to talk about Forbes, I think it was their their future council that they have, where they're talking about how hospitality is gonna mixed realities mixed realities are also going to be more incorporated into the industry. And I think that's a really interesting topic is AR, VR, MR. Just how I don't think we know exactly yet the best ways we're gonna implement those, but I think, you know, I think we'll figure it out, and I think that will really change the guest experience, not only in the booking side, but, you know, also maybe in house as well. Yeah. David Millili [00:31:59]: We had Amari from Creed Royale, and so he might think that's a maybe because it's just recent, but you might think that's a odd choice. But what I liked about what they were doing is they were even though there were more Orlando big box groups, they really were focused on the experience and the guest experience. So for me, you know, what I've loved is when you talk to somebody like that, even though it's like this big box, they're they're talking about the guest, not in a way of just like it's in and out, get them in and out. They really are caring about what's that guest experiencing on property. One of the reasons why I wanted to have you on was because, you know, the uniqueness of what you're doing. And And then we have organizations that were close to, like, the Independent Lodging Congress, ILC, that they try to pull all these things together in an event where it's designers and architects and technology and hoteliers and and lifestyle. And so I think that's why, you know, Steve and I, when we have our hospitality hot topics, we've kind of consistently saying another one bites the dust as these independent hotels get gobbled up by the brands. I think it saddens us because we're used to selling into or myself running independent Hotelier. David Millili [00:33:04]: But there's still that appetite that's there for and people want it, whether it's out in the woods connecting with nature or being in the middle of Manhattan. You know, they want that experience, and that's I think that's where the independent side of it, to your point, that's where the independent model can excel. Ben Wolff [00:33:22]: I totally agree. And I think that even I think it's even more so. Like, it's continuing to be more and more so that people want that independent brand, the authentic, more genuine experience. And one thing that I think is exciting, I think for a long time, there was there wasn't a ton of innovation in the hotel world, largely because it was so hard to break into so capital capital intensive. And I think today, you have this whole this whole wave and rush of the the rentrepreneur. Right? The the the person that got started in Airbnb had a great cash flow business. They wanna do a boutique Hotelier. That's kind of their next step, and you're getting people that think about the space in a much, you know, different way, fresh perspective. Ben Wolff [00:34:03]: And I think that's amazing for for hospitality. I think we're just gonna continue to see some amazing new innovative concepts come out where for many decades, the the the best innovations we saw were, like, loyalty rewards points and and things like that. I I think we're gonna see see a lot cooler stuff coming down the pipe. Steve Carran [00:34:20]: Awesome. Well, now our producer, John, he's been listening to this whole episode, so he's gonna come in and ask one final question before we head out here. Jon Bumhoffer [00:34:30]: As I was, you know, listening to the episode, taking my notes, I also went to the, your Instagram page, to check it out, and it is it is great. It's definitely shareable, very beautiful, and it got me I got I got 2 questions for you because you have a lot of beautiful properties, really cool looking places to stay. My first one is, what is your favorite stay that you guys have? And then 2, each one was fairly unique, and there's a lot of beauty in there. There's a lot of consideration for design. It's very artistic. I'm curious. How do you go about deciding on how to design, like, a piece like that where people stay or, like, how that process works out? Ben Wolff [00:35:06]: Yeah. So to answer your first question, the we're we're always kind trying to kind of, you know, outdo and further inspire and wow people as we as we build more properties. So the one I'm most excited about today is Owasso Hill Country, which all we have right now is a piece of dirt, and I have some renderings, and that's the one I'm most excited about. But right behind that is Oneiro Wimberly, the property that I'm really seeing come to life that's opening in September. Oneiro Fredericksburg will always have a soft place in my heart as the first, you know, unique stay boutique hotel landscape hotel development that we did. But, yeah, it it for me, it's always kind of what can we do next? How can we kind of push the envelope? And then on the design front, it's definitely a collaborative process. You know, we've worked with a number of architects, a number of interior designers. I have an amazing GC that I consider a partner, and and he really helps, you know, with the the value engineering. Ben Wolff [00:36:05]: Like, how and how do we actually do some of these crazy ideas that I come up with or or the architects or designers come up with? But today, most recently, and and for Ewasi, I do a lot of the concepting myself. You know, I'll sketch or kinda getting back to my, you know, my my my childhood roots of of art that I haven't done in a while. So I'll sketch things, or I'll use AI image generators to then work with a offshore rendering team that can help kind of change things, dial them back. Usually, the problem with AI is it goes just a little bit too far. So it's like, hey. You You know, I give I give AI generators something. It's like, we gotta dial this back a couple levels. But, yeah, that's how we're doing things now, and and that gets us our initial concept, marketing materials. Ben Wolff [00:36:51]: You know, we're raising money right now for Owasso Hill Country, our next project, and we have more than enough just from my initial concept and working with rendering folks to to sell it. David Millili [00:37:01]: Well, that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. Ben, this is where we let you plug away how people can find you and find out more about your company. So floor is yours. Ben Wolff [00:37:10]: Yeah. You can, find me on LinkedIn, Ben Wolf, 2 f's, or Twitter, x. I am at unique stays guy on there. So there's probably 2 bless best places to reach out to me. Our main company website is stay oasi, oasi.com, and you can see the various properties that we manage and and also check out our investment opportunities there. David Millili [00:37:32]: That does it for another episode of the Mountain Hotelier. So whether you're listening or watching, we appreciate you, and we will be with you again soon. Thank you so much. Thanks, Ben. Ben Wolff [00:37:40]: Thank you. Voice Over [00:37:41]: Are you going to high-tech or commercial strategy conference in Charlotte? Are you looking to create content or amplify your voice while you're there? The Modern Hotelier can help. The Modern Hotelier is the leading source of hospitality industry insights, helping hoteliers navigate today's ever changing landscape. Our team will be in Charlotte doing live interviews with exhibitors and attendees. We're excited to connect with industry experts and thought leaders of the hospitality space. If you're interested in meeting the Modern Hotelier team, send us a message on LinkedIn or email Steve at the modernhotellier.com. Steve Carran [00:38:16]: You made it to the end of the Modern Hotelier. Thanks for listening. The Modern Hotelier is produced by Make More Media. Make sure to like and subscribe if you're listening on YouTube or subscribe wherever you get your podcast. If you know a guest or sponsor that would be a good fit, feel free to email us at hello at the modern hotelier.com. If you'd like to get some Modern Hotelier merch, click the merch button on modernhotelier.com or click the link below. Thanks, and have a great day.