The Art and Science of Marketing in Hospitality | with Elizabeth Harlow

The Modern Hotelier #72: The Art and Science of Marketing in Hospitality | with Elizabeth Harlow === Steve Carran [00:00:00]: We had a really great time talking about marketing and how that affects the guest experience with Elizabeth Harlow from Sonesta, the chief brand officer. David, what were some of your favorite talking points from from this episode? David Millili [00:00:15]: Well, first of all, it was her first podcast. She killed it. And second, it was amazing how she's just always learning through her career. She's made a point to always be, you know, learning, which is was great advice that she gave. And her travel and her experiences that have kinda made her who she is was just really fascinating to listen to her talk about that. Steve Carran [00:00:36]: Absolutely. And and you can tell she is one of those people that's just extremely passionate about not only industry and also, you know, huge into supporting women in leadership roles as well. So, overall, I thought it was a great episode, and I'm excited to to release it here. David Millili [00:00:58]: Alright. Enjoy the episode. Welcome to The Modern Hotelier. Both hosts were honored as top 100 influential people in hospitality. We're bringing you interviews with industry experts, thought leaders, and innovators who are shaping the future of hospitality. Whether you're a seasoned hotel professional or just stepping into the industry, Voice Over [00:01:24]: Hotelier you going to high-tech or commercial strategy conference in Charlotte? Are you looking to create content or amplify your voice while you're there? The Modern Hotelier can help. The Modern Hotelier is the leading source of hospitality industry insights, helping hoteliers navigate today's ever changing landscape. Our team will be in Charlotte doing live interviews with exhibitors and attendees. We're excited to connect with industry experts and thought leaders of the hospitality space. If you're interested in meeting the David Millili [00:02:05]: Steve, who do we have on the program today? Steve Carran [00:02:07]: Yeah, David. Today, we have on Elizabeth Harlow. Elizabeth is the chief brand office officer for Sonesta International Hotels. With more than 2 decades in brand strategy and marketing, Elizabeth has mastered the perfect combination of brand, service, and luxury while seamlessly driving financial results. She's held the leadership role with some of the world's most iconic hospitality brands, and her approach is laser focused on the brand and customer. Welcome to the show, Elizabeth. Elizabeth Harlow [00:02:39]: Thank you so much, Steve. Happy to be here, and thanks for having me. David Millili [00:02:42]: We're gonna go through 3 sections. We're gonna ask you some quick lightning round type questions, learned about your background, get into your career, and then get into some industry topics. Sound good? Elizabeth Harlow [00:02:53]: Sounds great. David Millili [00:02:54]: Okay. What was your first job? Elizabeth Harlow [00:02:57]: 1st job out of college was at the Huntley Lodge in Big Sky, Montana, where I was at the front desk. I wanted to be a ski bum for a little bit. Didn't wanna really face reality quite yet, so headed out there. David Millili [00:03:10]: That's great. What's your favorite city? Elizabeth Harlow [00:03:12]: It's New York. It's new I mean, you can't beat it. 2nd favorite is Zurich. Close fast follow. David Millili [00:03:18]: Okay. What's the best piece of advice you've ever received? Elizabeth Harlow [00:03:21]: Best piece of advice, it recently came up in a conversation. It was about 15 years ago when I was at w, and my boss had said at the time, the key to success is take care of your people because people take care of the guests, guests will take care of the business, and business will take care of itself, which I thought was just a perfect way to bring everything home for lack of a better term. David Millili [00:03:43]: Christopher T. That's good advice. If you could trade places with someone for a day, who would you trade places with? Elizabeth Harlow [00:03:48]: Carrie Oh, well, I don't think he'd wanna trade places with me per se, but Barry Sternlicht, I think, has is the trailblazer in the industry, especially when it comes to brands and the the world that I'm in and have always just had such respect and admiration for him. But, yeah, but I don't think he'd wanna be me. David Millili [00:04:09]: You never know. What is on your bucket list? Elizabeth Harlow [00:04:11]: It has to be travel, of course, not surprisingly. I have been fortunate enough to been to have been to Tokyo a handful of times, but I've never had the opportunity to explore beyond Tokyo, and Japan is just it's calling to me. So hopefully, it's next. David Millili [00:04:26]: Do you have a secret talent that nobody knows you have or most people don't know yet? Elizabeth Harlow [00:04:31]: I don't know if people don't know I have it, but I'm the world's best audience. Like, I love someone with a sense of humor. It makes me happy. It's a sign of intelligence, so it's a win win. Best audience. David Millili [00:04:42]: So if you had your own late night talk show, who would your first guest be? Elizabeth Harlow [00:04:47]: Oh, that's a great one. My late night talk show, it would be Hillary Clinton. I mean, just as, you know, a female leader, someone who's blazed a trail again and just I know that she's polarizing, but I think she's a fascinating person. And would love to have David Millili [00:05:03]: her. Okay. Last one of the lightning round. If you had a time machine, which way are you going into the future, into the past, and what year are you going to? Elizabeth Harlow [00:05:13]: Okay. Great question. I think, I would go into the past, but it's very forward looking. And I'll tell you what I mean by that is it would have to be back to the Roman Empire, and I think that because there were so advanced in their civilization, and I I often wonder had Rome not, had it survived in the Roman empire, where would we be today as a civilization? Because I think that we would probably be years ahead of where we are now. So it's it's kind of a little bit of both, I would say. Steve Carran [00:05:43]: Great answer. Answer. Well, that was great. Now we're gonna learn a little bit more about your background and what makes you tick. So you grew up in Washington, DC. Is that right? Elizabeth Harlow [00:05:52]: I did. Yes. Steve Carran [00:05:53]: Awesome. So how did that shape you into who you are today? Elizabeth Harlow [00:05:58]: So growing up in DC was was wonderful. You know, both of my parents were New Yorkers. They moved there before I was born, and I think a lot of my childhood made me who I am like most people today, but my parents loved to travel when I was a child. So I was fortunate enough to travel with them, and they really instilled in me the love of travel and how it's, I think, it's so necessary for for one's personal growth, and in terms of understanding and empathy and appreciation of different cultures and people. And so I think by nature of my father's work, that enabled us to travel a lot, and I think it was it was a real impact on who I am today. Steve Carran [00:06:39]: And what part of DC did you grow up in? Elizabeth Harlow [00:06:41]: Alright. So the true Washingtonians will have an issue with this, but I grew up in the suburbs. Steve Carran [00:06:46]: In Virginia? Elizabeth Harlow [00:06:47]: In Maryland, close. The other one, so part of the DMV. But I was born I was born in Washington DC, grew up in the suburbs, went to high school in Georgetown, and then, and then went to college. But I haven't lived there most of my adult life, but I loved it. Yeah. David Millili [00:07:05]: Fair enough. So you graduated from the American International University in London with a bachelor's, a bachelor's of science degree in business and economics with a marketing concentration. What made you, I mean, we heard your love of travel, but what made you decide to go abroad for for university? Elizabeth Harlow [00:07:21]: Well, so my father and my my mom and my dad at the time when it was time for me to go to college were living in Austria, in Vienna. So my father was with the International Atomic Energy Agency. They're the ones who would go in and find those weapons of mass Europe because before I graduated from from college in London, I was actually in Switzerland for a few years as well. So it was a chance to be close to them, and, you know, you you look back and you think, what is it? Youth is wasted on the young. Right? I was kind of kicking and screaming going, I don't know. I wanna go to school in the states. That's where all my friends are gonna be. But then after 4 years, not surprisingly, I didn't wanna leave. Elizabeth Harlow [00:08:05]: I was very happy. Steve Carran [00:08:07]: That's awesome. And, you are you're quite the skier as well. I know you just mentioned Switzerland. Did you how did you get into skiing, and where is your favorite place that you've skied? Elizabeth Harlow [00:08:17]: Wow. You guys have done your homework. Yes. I am an avid skier. I did spend a lot of time, as mentioned, in Switzerland, but my husband and his family and I, we go skiing every year in Austria. And, yeah, it's it's tradition. It's the same hotel, it's the same resort, you see the same people that you've made friends with over the years, kids growing up together, it's multi generational, it's just, it's it's beautiful. It's called Zirs is where we go in Austria. Elizabeth Harlow [00:08:46]: Mhmm. Steve Carran [00:08:46]: Well, that was great. Now we're gonna go to your career, how you got to where you are today. So you were the marketing manager for Leading Hotels of the World, then you went to Starwood as the director of brand management, then came back to Leading Hotels of the World to be their senior director of brand marketing. What did you learn in those early stages of your career that that gave you a good foundation for your current role at Sonesta? Elizabeth Harlow [00:09:13]: I had was fortunate to work for so many great organizations. Leading Hotelier of the world was just amazing, especially as a young 20 year old 20 something year old, I should say, coming out of college and my first kind of jobs in the industry. And kind of relating it back to my childhood, traveling with my parents from place to place, I would see this plaque on, the the side of the hotel saying a member of the leading hotels of the world, and I'd say, that's where I wanna stay. So it was fun to kind of have it come full circle, and I spent a great number of years there. Again, I think learning the hospitality industry from the inside out, the luxury hospitality industry from the inside out, and the independent side of luxury, which was it's so unique to to leading and, having these iconic hotels that are just have so much history and heritage to them, being able to to have experience with those Hotelier, to to meet the most incredible people. And I always say the best thing about this industry is the people that I've gotten to meet over the years, and I think that in this industry, if you don't have a love of people, then you're in the wrong industry. Right? Because you are supposed to be hospitable by nature. So that was terrific. Elizabeth Harlow [00:10:22]: Then I had the opportunity to go to Starwood, and I would say from that perspective, that was the most formative time on my career from a brand perspective. Because I I started out working at the w brand, which was I wouldn't say it's an infancy stage, but maybe in its toddler stage, when I was with them and just really doing things differently from a brand from a hospitality brand perspective that seemed was was quite out of the norm at the time and just and understanding that, again, that true brand management and had I came after Barry Sternlicht had left, but his he had shaped the organization to such a degree with with such a focus on brands and the critical nature of brand, integrity and keeping brands differentiated. So that was very, very formative in my career in terms of what I was able to learn there and the people that I was able to meet. David Millili [00:11:12]: So you then went to Lowe's to be their senior vice president of brand marketing, then MGM to be the VP of brand strategy, and then VP of brand marketing at Howard Hughes. What are some of the marketing challenges you've seen you faced with large brands, and how did you try to stay ahead of the curve? Elizabeth Harlow [00:11:32]: So I think, you know, every brand is different. Every brand is different in terms of where they are in their growth trajectory and where they are in their life cycle. So many brands have been around forever and haven't carved out where their niche is. And so when I started at Lowe's and when I started, at MGM, I really took the approach of digging into the brand, how they're positioned, who their core customer was, what their brand promise was. And it was it was interesting to me that a lot of these brands had not kind of done that diligence, for lack of a better term, or at least hadn't done in a while. And really using that kind of learning those learnings of the core customer to shape not only your marketing, obviously, but certainly your brand experience, what they're looking for, what those touch points are gonna be across the the customer journey. So I love that kind of work, and I love digging into the that the psychology of brands in many ways. So that was a tremendous learning for me, but then going to Bellagio when I started out at MGM, that was next level in terms of what that experience would be, and and, you know, running a a 5 star hotel with 4,000 rooms seemed just I had to get my arms around that. Elizabeth Harlow [00:12:45]: So that was an experience. I never thought I would be I never saw myself in Las Vegas, but it was a wonderful, wonderful time, and I learned so much. Steve Carran [00:12:54]: That's great. And now for the past 3 years, you've been with Sonesta as their chief brand officer. So tell us more about your role there and your favorite experience so far at Sonesta. Elizabeth Harlow [00:13:07]: Well, it has been a whirlwind. The company itself has been through so much growth over the past 3 years. You know, it went from 60 hotels to 2 60 hotels to now we're at 1100 hotels. It's been it's been quite incredible. And so 3, I joined almost 3 years ago. Later on this month, it'll be 3 years. One of my old bosses from Starwood is the COO, and that's how I came back, and that's how I got reconnected with Sonesta. So similar to what I mentioned before, when I joined, there were 5 brands, but brands in name only. Elizabeth Harlow [00:13:40]: Nobody could tell you, again, promise, core customer, values. So first, we really set about to to kind of do that that positioning work, which then informed a lot of the, again, the brand, but also the marketing side of the business. So it has been nonstop as you can imagine. I think when, in 2020, when a lot of hotels were were shrinking or companies were contracting, we were expanding. Our CEO, and the company in general, I should say, is extremely entrepreneurial in spirit in spirit. We are a private company, so that gives us in many ways more flexibility. Some might think in terms of where we go and what we're doing and and how we kind of take our course. So it has been just tremendous. Elizabeth Harlow [00:14:24]: Again, I've learned so much and I'm getting I'm I'm tapping into brands and categories of brands that I had not had experience with, primarily in the value space, but, they make up a huge part of our portfolio and a critical piece of of who we are as an organization. So, that's been a tremendous learning curve, for me in in trying and digging into that customer and what that customer is looking for and how we can drive their stay and and value across the enterprise. So it's been a very, very exciting time, and I the past 3 years have been, have flown by just because in terms of the action the actions and the activity that that are surrounding us. So it's been terrific. Steve Carran [00:15:05]: What's one of your favorite things that that you've done or you've seen at Sonesta over the past 3 years? Elizabeth Harlow [00:15:11]: Well, I think it's it's again just having the the ability to shape and architect these brands. Right? They they had, again, been existence and name only, so having that impact has been great. Also, I think another thing that that we're very proud of is we've launched our first ever brand awareness campaign. The company had never done that before, so that was quite fulfilling, and we had a lot of fun doing that. And, we we saw the the impact of that as well. So I'm quite pleased and proud of that we were able to do that as an organization and and to see the results of our efforts. So it's David Millili [00:15:44]: been rewarding. Steve Carran [00:15:44]: That's great. Now we're gonna get into the industry thoughts and get your opinion on a few things. So in March, we celebrated Women's History Month for women in the industry. Industry. You know, as as a leader yourself, c suite executive, what advice do you have to women in hospitality to help them grow with their career or be successful in the Elizabeth Harlow [00:16:10]: important to have a point of view for sure. It's also important to be curious and connected for lack of a better term and to have a seat at the table, you do have to come armed again. Maybe armed is too strong a word, but that sounds a little bit combative. But prepared. Steve Carran [00:16:29]: Hack it if you come to obtain it. Elizabeth Harlow [00:16:32]: Yeah. Prepared and and and not to you know, if you believe in something, then then you should truly believe in it and and come prepared to any kind of discussion with a point of view. To have confidence. Right? I think that many women sometimes can suffer from imposter syndrome, and and that's quite normal regardless of what industry you're in. I think it's becoming less and less normal, and I am so happy to see that. But then I would also kind of add, as my mother would tell me every day before I go to work when I for example, when I would speak to her in the morning, she'd say, oh, and Lizzie, work hard. So I think that's always important too is having this strong work ethic, as as simple as it sounds, and it's something that's really kind of guided me. That all being said, now that we're beyond COVID, I think it's important that people take care of themselves, and I think that it's critical for longevity. Elizabeth Harlow [00:17:21]: I think it's we have to take a step back and and make sure that if we're not healthy and have sat of, you know, a healthy kind of headspace, then we can't expect the people that we work with to be healthy either. So I think it's kind of shifted, I would say, in the past few years coming out of COVID and this this realization of of self care. David Millili [00:17:40]: So last year, Sonesta partnered with Grubhub, which is seems like a really smart idea. What's the feedback you've been getting and how's it been, affecting the the guest overall experience? Elizabeth Harlow [00:17:53]: Yeah. We've seen great, great success from our partnership with Grubhub, especially at our extended stay properties because that gives them value that I guess removing from some of the the extended stay kind of experience. So we've seen great uptake from our guests, especially from the from the Grubhub side and seeing they could see the activity of that of the guests kind of engaging with that brand and utilizing the services. So while we started off with the kind of extended stay brands, we're actually speaking with them to grow the partnership even more, but it just gives a benefit. And, again, removing some friction from the guest stay, And, it's very well received and appreciated by our extended stay guests, certainly. Steve Carran [00:18:32]: That's great. And I I was reading an article, and this quote really stuck up to me, and I wanna understand a little bit more what you mean by this. It was you said marketing is part art and part science. So what do you mean by that, and, you know, how can marketers incorporate this into marketing for book outs? Elizabeth Harlow [00:18:52]: Well, certainly. I strongly believe in that statement. Marketing speaks to the creative nature in in someone and to their audiences, so that is kind of how I view the art side of things. But but that all said, our technology and the tools that we have on hand allow us to dig in and really understand, well, a creative idea might be wonderful and creative, but if it's actually not moving the needle, then then is it all worth it? So I think it's marrying those 2 sensibilities together, which can produce the most impactful campaigns that are gonna make that are gonna drive audience, drive behavior, and drive demand. So that's what I meant by that. Did did that help? Steve Carran [00:19:31]: Yeah. Absolutely. Do you have an instance in your career where the art and science really came together for a marketing campaign or a marketing activity that you've done? Elizabeth Harlow [00:19:41]: Certainly. I would, point to our famous yet nameless campaign that we ran last year. And if you're not familiar with it, the whole premise of the campaign was we've been around for 80 years. Sonesta has been around for for 80 years, and yet nobody really knew our name. Right? Our brand awareness was, well, we'll say it was, pretty low. And, we working with our partner agency, Ro New York, we concepted that idea, and we found the perfect brand ambassador, and I wish I could show a picture of her and say how many people know her name, but we worked with Judy Greer. And if you don't know who Judy Greer is, you probably don't know her name, but you do know her face. And she's always plays the the sidekick. Elizabeth Harlow [00:20:30]: Right? The the best friend, the bridesmaid. And we approached her and said, hey. We've got this concept. What do you think? And she said, it's perfect, and it's so me. So so we worked with her and developed this campaign. And so that was the art part. Right? It was creative. It was it was it was authentic, meaning we know where we stand. Elizabeth Harlow [00:20:50]: She knows where she stands in terms of brand recognition. So let's see where this goes. And, we launched in January of 2023, and quite immediately, we did see this spike in our awareness. Right? And we did and now granted, it had a huge media push behind it, which you need. Right? And then so working with our our media agency, trying to find the perfect channels that would really showcase what the creative was, the message was, etcetera. And, because of that kind of push and pull, we we we did see this double digit increase in our awareness, which then we saw transcend into our website traffic and then moving down the funnel. So that, to me, demonstrated an art and science to a marketing campaign. Steve Carran [00:21:32]: Great campaign. I I just looked her up. No idea who she was, but now I do. That's how so it's it's literally the perfect person for that campaign. So David Millili [00:21:40]: Yeah. That's hilarious. That's really funny. So one of the things you're passionate about is sustainability. And what are you seeing this year, 2024 kind of trends? And what are some of the low hanging fruit or layups for hotels to just make an impact with sustainability? Elizabeth Harlow [00:21:58]: Yeah. It's it's a very delicate notion. Right? And I think that oftentimes, we see organizations, enterprises greenwash. Right? They they say they're sustainable and yet they're not if you scratch the surface, it's it's not entirely representative of their practices. I'll give an example. I was at a hotel recently, not a Sonesta Hotelier will the hotel will remain nameless, but I thought it was funny that they had they'd gone through the trouble of putting a tent card in the bathroom saying, we are a green Hotelier. And yet when I turn my eyes over into the shower, there's these tiny little bottles of shampoo, conditioner. And I said, well, don't even say it then at that point. Elizabeth Harlow [00:22:39]: I mean, let's and, you know, it gets back to a lot of hotels kind of positioning. Well, if you don't launder your hotels, therefore, we or sorry. Launder your linens, your towels, etcetera, you're impacting our sustainability efforts. And and sure, you are, but it goes beyond that. And I think to answer your question about what the low hanging fruit is, put in bulk dispensers in the showers and the vanities, etcetera. It it makes such I mean, from a cost perspective, you're gonna do better. From a waste perspective, you're gonna from an efficiency, And yet there might be some upfront costs, but those will be over time diminished and and this the operating cost will will level out and make it all. So to me, that's a very kind of simple step and something that I it's one of the first things I notice when I stay in hotels now, and it's it's something that seems so simple but can make a big impact. David Millili [00:23:29]: Yeah. I was just in New York, and it was it was one of the first hotels I've been to in a while, and they did have the single use. And it was like a little cap, and I was trying to open it. And then you're trying to squeeze it, and you're like, that's all that's coming out of this thing? You're like so, anyway so yeah. So it Elizabeth Harlow [00:23:42]: was very expensive. Soap and, like, you're scratching at them to taking out the plastic, and you're just and it's gonna be thrown away. So Steve Carran [00:23:49]: It's it's very funny. That's great. So last question from our end. What advice do you have for younger professionals out there that might be looking to get into marketing in the hospitality industry? Elizabeth Harlow [00:24:03]: So first of all, the industry. Like I said, you I think you guys can tell, and I'm passionate about the industry. I think it's one of the best industries out there. It's obviously, I'm biased, but it's afforded me so much in terms of, like, life skills and and experiences and meeting people, as mentioned, from so many different cultures and and just the understanding and the growth that you have emotionally from it. I think in terms of marketing, I was lucky enough to to marry 2 of my passions together. I loved marketing. That's what I studied in college, and I married that up with travel, and and here I am now. So if that's of interest to a younger person, I don't think you necessarily have to have a marketing degree to to to be where I am, to be quite honest. Elizabeth Harlow [00:24:44]: I think it all comes from from hard work. It comes from making steps within your career that that you're strategic about. Right? You know that you're gonna take this step because down the road, you're that's the ultimate goal, and your career might zig and zag a little bit, but as long as you're building that experience and and again, networking along the way, I think every job that I've had for I don't even know how long, it was someone reaching out to me from my network saying, hey, would you be interested in this, that, or the other thing? It wasn't me actively looking, and and I think that just is it shows how valuable networking can be in building those relationships. So that's that's my advice. Steve Carran [00:25:21]: Absolutely. Great advice. Great advice. So we've been asking you questions this whole time, so we're gonna turn the tables, and we're gonna let you ask David and I a question. Elizabeth Harlow [00:25:32]: Okay. We've been so you guys have been doing this now for, I'm gonna say, a year? Steve Carran [00:25:40]: 3. 3. Well, 3rd season. Sorry. This is her Elizabeth Harlow [00:25:43]: 3rd season. Okay. Going back. Who's who's been your best guest? Steve Carran [00:25:50]: Best guest. I don't know if I have a favorite guest, but I definitely have favorite moments. I will say that probably one of my favorite moments was one of our first episodes, actually. It was with Sarah Dandashe. She started a breakdancing club in college. So naturally, I asked what her favorite song was to breakdance to, and she started singing Kid Rock, Ball With the Ball, when then I joined in, and then we're just singing Kid Rock on the podcast. So I never thought I'd be singing Kid Rock on a podcast because I'm a terrible singer, and we thought Kid Rock would be a topic of conversation, but it just was one of those moments that always sticks out to me and was just hilarious. Elizabeth Harlow [00:26:31]: I love it. That is that is a moment. What about you, David? David Millili [00:26:34]: Yeah. I think, you know, it's kinda the same thing. I mean, we've I've just loved pretty much all of our guests because we it just this is a great kinda gig to have because you learn so much. But probably my favorite moment was our very first episode. I'm good friends with Anthony Molcari, and he we don't give people the questions. We don't tell them what we're gonna ask them. And I asked him, could you explain to the audience what what is a missile pilot? And he was in the air force. He just lost it. David Millili [00:27:02]: He just on air, he had no idea because when he was in college, he would go they would go to bars and tell the the girls that they were missile pilots that from the air force. And then they would say, what do you mean? And they would say, well, how do you think the missile finds the target? And so it was this whole it was just a it was just a funny moment because he didn't know what was gonna happen, and he, like, basically, like, lost it. Elizabeth Harlow [00:27:23]: But yeah. Steve Carran [00:27:24]: He literally fell out of his chair. Wow. Yeah. He did. I mean, Elizabeth Harlow [00:27:27]: well played. Yeah. Well played. What's, like, one of the most interesting things that you've learned from your your guests and your Steve Carran [00:27:34]: Oh my goodness. I think it's, like, the passions for I'm gonna say the passions in general, but how many people wanna go to Tokyo and Japan or even love the culture? Like, you're probably one of the probably the 5th or 6th guest that we've had on that either has said something about Tokyo or the culture or something like that, and it has risen steadily on my bucket list till, like, now it's one of the top destinations that I have to go to in my life. Elizabeth Harlow [00:28:01]: Interesting. Steve Carran [00:28:02]: But that was great. So we've had we've been asking you questions this whole time. You're probably sick of answering questions from us, but our producer, John, has been listening the whole time as well. So we're gonna hand it off to him for the final question of the episode. Jon Bumhoffer [00:28:15]: Yeah. I have been listening the whole time, and it is very clear that you are very passionate about hospitality and travel, and that's super, super cool. You've also had a lot of experience in marketing with, you know, bigger brands and stuff like that. A lot of our audience is is, like, independent. And so so I'm curious if you just have some, like, quick quick hitter tips to how does, like, what you've learned working with brands and marketing, how would you say that would apply and help out independents and how they can kinda take their marketing and brand to the next level? Elizabeth Harlow [00:28:45]: Well, I think even independent hotels, they're their own brand. Right? And I think you, as an independent hotel, you have to differentiate how you're defining and crafting the guest experience, versus your competitor and and being true to that brand. Therefore, the the kind of outward communication of that brand is based on that guest experience. And I think that guest experience and brand marketing can't be disconnected. They have to be 100% integrated in order to have credibility and, respectability, if you will, within the industry. And so those touch points, those design features, those amenities, whatever it is, have to be intentional and thoughtful and differentiated whether that's for a group of hotels as a brand or an independent hotel in order to set yourself apart and to be, again, differentiated in the marketplace. David Millili [00:29:40]: Well, that does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. This is the part where you get the plug away, Elizabeth. Let us know how to find connect how our audience can connect with you or find out more about Sonesta. Elizabeth Harlow [00:29:52]: You can always connect with me on LinkedIn. It is an incredible network that I, tap into regularly. In terms of Sonesta, you can find us at sonesta.com. And, we're growing quickly, so keep an eye out. David Millili [00:30:05]: So that does it for another episode of the Modern Hotelier. So whether you're watching or listening, we appreciate you and hope to be with you again soon. Thank you very much. Elizabeth Harlow [00:30:13]: Thank you. Voice Over [00:30:14]: Are you going to high-tech or commercial strategy conference in Charlotte? Are you looking to create content or amplify your voice while you're there? The Modern Hotelier can help. The Modern Hotelier is the leading source of hospitality industry insights, helping hoteliers navigate today's ever changing landscape. Our team will be in Charlotte doing live interviews with exhibitors and attendees. We're excited to connect with industry experts and thought leaders of the hospitality space. If you're interested in meeting the Modern Hotelier team, send us a message on LinkedIn or email Steve at the modernhotellier.com. Steve Carran [00:30:49]: You made it to the end of the Modern Hotelier. Thanks for listening. The Modern Hotelier is produced by Make More Media. Make sure to like and subscribe if you're listening on YouTube or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 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