How would your travel experience change if you knew exactly how welcoming a hotel is to your furry friends?
In this episode of The Modern Hotelier, hosts David Millili and Steve Carran interview Guise Bule, the founder of Ranked by Roch and the Roch Society. Guise shares his journey from cybersecurity to creating the first dog-friendly certification and ranking process for the hotel industry. Driven by personal frustrations with misleading "pet-friendly" claims, Guise explains how Ranked by Roch uses a data-driven approach to evaluate hotels on their dog-friendly policies, amenities, and services.
In this episode, you'll discover:
- The inspiration behind Ranked by Roch
- How hotels are ranked and certified as dog-friendly
- Issues with current pet-friendly hotel awards and listings
- Trends in dog-friendly hospitality across different countries
- The importance of transparency in pet policies for travelers
Guise also critiques major travel platforms' pet-friendly awards and discusses the growing importance of catering to dog owners in the hospitality industry. This episode offers valuable insights for hoteliers, dog owners, and anyone interested in the evolving landscape of pet-friendly travel.
Join the conversation on today's episode on The Modern Hotelier LinkedIn page.
The Modern Hotelier is produced, edited, and published by Make More Media: https://makemore.media/
Episode Links
Guise Bule
David Millili
Steve Carran
Steve on LinkedIn
The Modern Hotelier
Transcript
Automatic Transcription - please excuse any errors
Steve Carran: Welcome back to The Modern Hotelier. We're really excited to release this episode with Guise Bule. David, what were a couple of things that stood out to you from this episode?
David Millili: What I loved was he's a man who saw a problem, was involved in an issue, and solved it. He's actually doing something that's going to change the way people travel with their dogs. It was pretty cool to see somebody who's that passionate actually do something about it rather than just write a scathing review about how a hotel didn't meet their expectations.
Steve Carran: Yeah, absolutely. I think that was one of my favorite things too. I also love how he's really like, nobody's done this before. Nobody has rated hotels for dogs, and he's kind of coming up with this on his own. I thought his rating system, the 50 different requirements that go into a hotel, was really well thought out and gives a good, accurate, transparent rating of how dog-friendly hotels are. Really excited to release this episode. Let us know what you think in the comments, and enjoy.
David Millili: Enjoy it.
David Millili: Welcome to The Modern Hotelier. I'm your host, David Millili.
Steve Carran: I'm your co-host, Steve Carran.
Jon Bumhoffer: I'm the producer, Jon Bumhoffer.
David Millili: Steve, who do we have on the program today?
Steve Carran: Yeah, David, today we have Guise Bule. Guise is the founder of Ranked by Roch and the Roch Society. Ranked by Roch is the world's first dog-friendly certification and ranking process for the hotel industry. Ranked by Roch certifies hotels' dog-friendly policies, services, amenities, access, and facilities to regionally rank them on rochdog.com. Welcome to the show, Guise.
Guise Bule: Steve, thank you for having me. I appreciate you letting me on.
Steve Carran: Absolutely.
David Millili: So, we're going to go through four sections. We're going to go through a lightning round, learn about your background, get into your career, and then dive into some industry topics. Sound good?
Guise Bule: Very good.
David Millili: All right, here we go. What was your first job?
Guise Bule: My first job was stacking shelves in a supermarket. My father sent me out into the world of work. I was still at school, and it's the job in England where I'm from. It's either that or a paper round, right? But I chose the supermarket because of the pretty cashiers that worked there. That was my first job.
David Millili: What's something you wish you were better at?
Guise Bule: At keeping my mouth shut sometimes.
David Millili: Do you have a role model?
Guise Bule: Yeah, I do actually. This obviously changes from time to time. But right now it's a guy called Rick Cridland, who started this incredible company making enrichment toys for guinea pigs. Which sounds crazy, but there's method to his madness, there's genius there. It's called Hey Pigs. He's my hero right now.
David Millili: What is a luxury you cannot live without?
Guise Bule: Wow, my dog and my toes in the sand.
David Millili: What's a place you've never been to that you'd most like to go to?
Guise Bule: Lots of those, David. Wow. I'm gonna have to say Chile.
David Millili: You have a late-night talk show. You're the host. Who's your first guest?
Guise Bule: Wow. You throw me with that one. Who do I want to talk to the most? The Chief Executive of TripAdvisor.
David Millili: Hmm. Yeah, that makes two of us. If you had a time machine, which way are you going? The future or the past? And what year are you going to?
Guise Bule: Ha! I'm headed to the past. I'm headed back to the glory days of the full English breakfast. I want a really good one. I think that's where you get the best.
David Millili: All right. A man who follows his stomach. We like it.
Steve Carran: That was great. Now we're going to learn a little bit more about your background. What makes you tick? So, you grew up in England, is that right?
Guise Bule: No, I grew up, I'm third culture. I grew up in lots of different countries.
Steve Carran: Where'd you grow up?
Guise Bule: All over Europe—Spain, France, Italy, Turkey, Scotland, bits in South America. As an adult, I carried on living that way too, because when you don't know where you're from, you just keep looking and traveling globally. My work has taken me across the Atlantic to the US. I've been working there for the last decade and a half. So yeah, I'm kind of English. I sound English. My parents are English, but I'm really transatlantic, and I've got a European outlook. It messes you up a little bit.
Steve Carran: Yeah. Well, that's great. How did living in all those different places shape you into who you are today?
Guise Bule: They made it really easy for me to go anywhere and make friends. I find it easy to move to any country on my own, even if I don't know anybody. I can build a life there, make friends, have fun, and fit in with the local culture and customs. I think that's a big part of being a third culture kid—knowing how to do that right.
Steve Carran: That's great.
David Millili: Like you said, you're in the US. What made you decide to come to the US, and how has the transition been from living throughout Europe and other places?
Guise Bule: You know, funnily, I didn't actually decide to move to the US. The US decided to. It was a wonderful woman named Robin Goldstone. She ran the high-performance computing division for Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. It's a National Nuclear Security Administration facility. I was in cybersecurity back then, and we had this amazing platform, and they wanted it. She told me, "We can't do business with an English company; you need to move to America." Of course, the contract was huge. It was a major defense contract with a major federal government facility. The writing was on the wall. I moved to America without thinking twice, gentlemen. And I have to say, to answer the second part of your question, I've not looked back. I love working with Americans. My companies are always founded and formed for good reason.
Steve Carran: That's awesome. So, you're also the chairman of the English Breakfast Society, and you've even written a book called "The English Breakfast Handbook: A Guide to the Traditional Full English Breakfast." How did you get passionate about English breakfast? And what is the best English breakfast you've ever had?
Guise Bule: That's a hard question. It's my hobby, right? I've been doing quite fierce, complex technical stuff for a long time in my career, and my hobby was tuning out, writing, and talking about the English breakfast. I do it for a reason. Once upon a time, I got really angry when they closed my favorite cafe down in West London. Suddenly, you couldn't get a good English breakfast in West London. The tradition was in decline, and I got angry and founded the English Breakfast Society. You know, 12-13 years later, we've actually managed to move the needle. The tradition is soaring in popularity. The best English breakfast in the UK right now is tough to pick. It's two places. The Faro—both London places, right—the Faro restaurant or the Hawksmoor Guildhall, or any of the Hawksmoor locations, do incredible examples of contemporary English breakfast.
Steve Carran: Beautiful. Definitely wrote those down. That was great. Now we're going to go into your career a little bit, how you got to where you are today. You're an entrepreneur. You've had a couple of companies, some that have gotten acquired besides Roch. What has been your favorite company that you've started?
Guise Bule: I have to say all of them, right? I have to say all of them. Even the ones that failed, I still love them. They still live in a little bit of my heart. It's funny, I was talking to one of my mentors, and he asked me, "How are you doing?" And I said, "I'm making less money right now than I've ever made in my life." Working in cyber and defense pays big bucks, and I've gotten used to that. Right now, I'm making a lot less money than I'm used to, but I've never been happier. I've got to tell you, my favorite startup is the one I'm working on right now. I abandoned my former, highly paid career, and I went to the dogs. I've never been happier, Steve. Never been happier. My favorite one is the one I'm working on right now.
Steve Carran: I love that. I love that.
David Millili: Great. So just a bit over a year ago, you started the Roch Society, ranked by Roch. What made you start those companies, and tell us more about them.
Guise Bule: So, white hot fury and anger were what did it. When I, here's the thing, when I get really, I'm not an angry person, you mustn't think I'm an angry person, but when I get angry enough to want to change something, that's when I have my best ideas. I'm not going to blame the Dolce Windum, but I checked into a Dolce Windum with my girlfriend because of their dog-friendly marketing. They're really good at it. I believed it, got suckered in by it, and I checked in, dropped my bags at this beautiful luxury resort, went downstairs with my dog to sit on the terrace, and I sat down. The waiter came over and said, "I'm sorry, your dog can't be here." Bearing in mind, I'm spending $150 a night extra to have my dog there. I told him, "I've just checked in, I really need a beer. Please, bring me a beer and send your manager over." He apologized, and I said, "Don't worry, bring me a beer, and we'll get this sorted out." The manager came over and explained, "This is a five-star luxury resort charging an awful lot of money for you to be here with your dog. The dog must stay in the room. Not allowed on the terraces, not allowed in the gardens." The huge back gardens and the ornamental front gardens where nobody goes were off-limits. My dog must stay in the room. It ruined my trip as a dog owner. I was furious. I speak fluent Spanish, and we were in Spain at the time. They told me it was due to local regulations, which I knew wasn't true. So I went mad. I sat outside in the mountains with my dog while my girlfriend enjoyed the resort. I was spitting fire. But it wasn't just them; it was a hundred hotels before them. I've been turned away from hotel rooms because inexplicably my small female Labrador is "too big" for their hotel, or because, "I'm sorry, sir, we only have two dog-friendly rooms, and they're occupied. You should have called ahead." I booked you because I thought you were dog-friendly, and this kept happening. It happened enough over the years that it built up into this frustration, and it was the Dolce Windum that tipped me over the edge. I left that weekend, and I knew what had to be done. The hotel industry, I think it's like, the word "luxury" has been abused. When everyone's luxury, nobody's luxury. Greenwashing happens for the same reason. When everyone's sustainable, nobody is. Same with "dog friendly." Pet-friendly doesn't mean much anymore. You can't trust the pet-friendly tags on the booking platforms and websites. If you do, you're just running into problems time and time again if you try to travel with your dog. It's a serious problem. I knew it had to be solved, and I came up with a way to solve it. I was trying to fix my own problem. I want to find the world's best hotels where I can stay with my dog and be happy. That's it.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. I feel your pain on that. When I'm traveling with my animals, I'll travel with my cat and dog, and hotels will say "pet-friendly." So I think multiple varieties of pets can come in, but then it might only be dogs. And like you said, you call, and it's like, "Oh, we only have one or two dog-friendly rooms that are booked. We can't do it." It's like, what are you going to do? It's not the best transparency about their rules or regulations. But I want to let you elaborate a little more on how you're doing the ranking of these hotels. You know, there's a lot that goes into dog- or pet-friendly hotels. What are the qualifications that you are looking at at Roch to distinguish the most dog-friendly hotels?
Guise Bule: We go about this in a fairly systematic way. It's a data-driven approach. We're trying to measure everything that's measurable as it pertains to canine hospitality. It begins with services they offer, the policies that surround dogs and dog owners being on their property, the amenities they offer, and the facilities on-site available for use by dogs and dog owners, all the way through to ancillaries. We cover the whole gamut—about 55 different questions. These are very simple yes or no questions because we're trying to avoid ambiguity. We're trying to get a clear picture and measure something precisely. Each answer carries a point weight. For example, if there's a dog fee—we call it a canine tax now—a canine tax is a cleaning fee that a hotel charges without offering services or amenities in return. If they charge one, we deduct a point for that. You can win or lose points depending on how you answer in our system. What that does is give us an accurate point score that's a true reflection of your dog-friendly position as it pertains to our benchmark, which is made up of a thousand certifications across hotels, not just in your country but globally. That thousand is increasing, and our benchmark is getting sharper over time. We take your point score and use it to derive a letter-based rank. No one knows what 50 is or 30 points out of 50, but they know what an A+ is. They know what a B is. They know what a D is, right? So we derive the letter ranks from the point scores based on the answers hotels give us. These are comprehensive verbal interviews done with hotels to make sure we've got the right information. That's the only way to tell if a hotel is truly dog-friendly or not and if it's going to meet your needs as a dog owner. Without it, you're flying blind. We're trying to make it easy for dog owners to know where to spend their money, where to stay with their dog, and where to avoid. That's important, too. That's why we're quantifying it and certifying it.
Steve Carran: Great to learn more about your background. Now we're going to go into the trends in the hotel world, specifically around pets. You recently ranked the Intercontinental Miami as the dog-friendliest hotel on earth. What made that property so unique and so dog-friendly to give it an A+?
Guise Bule: They gave all the right answers. It's worth noting we don't lightly award that title. There are probably two A+ hotels out of the thousand that I've certified personally so far. It's by any measure an incredibly high rank. The reason they scored that A+ is simply their outstanding canine inclusivity and excellence. Across the board, they go above and beyond by organizing weekly canine events on their awesome terrace. They are the local spot for every dog-friendly community and club in the region. Everything about their hotel and your experience there is truly dog-friendly. They even work with local designers to make their own cool bandanas for dogs, which don't just say "Intercontinental" on them but are actually a fashion item. They're redefining canine fashion. They're working with local canine charities to ensure the proceeds of any of their pet programs go to local charities. That's excellence right there. That truly is dog-friendly excellence. Beds, bowls are provided, food is on the menu, they'll walk your dog for you if needed, they have a veterinarian on call in case of medical emergencies, and they have specific business insurance coverage in place because that's peace of mind. That's called doing all the right things, gentlemen. That's why they have an A+.
Steve Carran: What is the coolest amenity that you've seen for dogs? The reason I ask is that when I lived in downtown Washington DC, an apartment complex got built next to where I was living, and they had a dog spa on top of their roof. They had fake grass, and they actually had someone come in to do spa appointments for dogs—nail clipping, washing, all while they're eating treats and being pampered. Probably better than I've ever been pampered, to be honest. So, have you seen anything like that in a hotel? What's the coolest thing you've seen?
Guise Bule: So I've got two answers. My dog's answer and my answer, right? My answer is hotels in Japan love selfie spots. They'll bring in a photographer, set up a cool background, and take some killer shots of you and your dog. That's amazing, right? People love that, and I love that because who doesn't? You know, the great stuff you can post on social media. My dog loves water fountains, you know, the specific dog ones that dogs can just play in. They're like sprinklers, and they move a bit. If your garden has one of those, it keeps them happy in the heat. And that's just great. Those are the two coolest things I see. But yeah, memorable experiences. Hotels really want to create memorable experiences. Get a photographer, create a cool backdrop, make some killer images with your customers, right? And their dogs, they'll love you for it.
Steve Carran: Yeah. Great idea. So you mentioned if you had one person on your talk show, it would be the CEO of TripAdvisor. I have a feeling it has to do with an article you just wrote about TripAdvisor's 2024 Pet Friendly Hotel Awards and how they are completely broken. Tell us a little more about this article and why there's a disconnect with TripAdvisor and pet-friendly hotels.
Guise Bule: So, this is a really interesting conversation. I think it's a bigger conversation about what's wrong with "pet friendly" in the wider industry. But, let's answer the TripAdvisor question. That's a big statement, huh? TripAdvisor's pet friendly awards are broken. Here's how I see it: what got me onto this is the CEO of Mars, the big global conglomerate, declaring when he was announcing a partnership with TripAdvisor that 30 percent of dog owners would rather leave their dog at home because it's just too difficult to travel with them. So, the partnership with TripAdvisor was about making it easier for pet owners to travel with their dogs when they stayed at hotels. This triggered me, because I've known for a long time TripAdvisor can't tell a dog-friendly hotel a good one from a bad one. They just don't have the data. They don't have the perspective and they've not bothered to check. So I sprung into action and personally certified all of the 25 hotels in their best-of-the-best pet-friendly hotel awards. I expected to find some good dog-friendly hotels at least in the top five. The top three were stinkers. The first one ranked 52 points on my score. It was a C. I'm being as objective as I can because I'm aware of the article I'm writing. Just by any measure, pain and inclusivity didn't exist there. Your dog must stay in the room. It wasn't allowed in the bars, restaurants, or lounges. The guest lounge must be the lobby, the lift, or your room. There's a high pet fee, no beds or bowls—how is that the number one best-of-the-best pet-friendly hotel in the world? I thought it must be a mistake, but I checked number two, and it was the same pattern. Their actual best hotel on that list was the Four Seasons, which was down at the number 15 spot, inexplicably. You have to ask yourself, if Mars and TripAdvisor really want to make it easier for pet owners, or "pet parents" as they call it, to travel with their dogs, they could have at least checked the hotels they're recommending in their new awards. They should be a fit for purpose, actually sending people to good dog-friendly hotels, because if you go to any of those hotels in their top five, you're not going to have a good hospitality experience as a dog owner. A hotel that doesn't cater to your actual needs isn't truly dog-friendly. It's like a restaurant serving food without flavor. It's not genuine hospitality.
Steve Carran: Absolutely. Have you noticed that in different parts of the world, there are better or worse scores for dog owners? How does the U.S. compare to Europe?
Guise Bule: The U.S. is great. Some of the world's best dog-friendly hotels are in the UK, and Japan has amazing dog spas. In Japan, they do dog-friendly well, with unique gadgets and wonderful photo shoot opportunities. That's where I saw the photo shoot idea. But in America, the hospitality industry leads in terms of dog-friendly hotels. However, the UK has some incredible dog-friendly country houses, like those in movies, with huge gardens. You can't beat a huge garden when you have a dog. Off-leash walking right outside the doorstep is wonderful. The best hotels I've come across so far are in the United States and Japan.
David Millili: It makes you feel any better, TripAdvisor is broken as a whole, let alone their pet-friendly hotels. That's my opinion. It makes you feel any better, I think that...
Guise Bule: Well, I'm doing Expedia next. I'm proving the point because we now have a data-driven approach for comparative analysis to test if their claims are true. I'm almost certain Expedia's top 20 dog-friendly hotel list isn't actually the top 20 in the world as they claim. Do you know whose is? Condé Nast. I've certified all of their 2023-2024 winners consistently high standards across the board, but again they're B+ and A grades, not A+. There are excellent hotels that miss. You could argue, David, isn't it TripAdvisor's job to showcase excellence in hospitality?
David Millili: That's what I would've said. I was gonna keep punching, but I decided to pull back. I mean, they didn't know who they wanted to be when they grew up. They started with a mission of helping travelers find the best places to travel, just like you're finding the best places to travel with your pet, your canine, your dog. They moved into trying to book rooms and that's not what they do. So now when you go to a TripAdvisor site, you're getting bombarded with "book a room." And it's like, I don't want to book a room. I want to find the room I want to book. So that's the whole thing. They've never been able to figure that out. If you're trying to compete with Expedia and Booking.com, you're not going to win because that's all they do. Now Expedia and Booking.com have reviews. But to your point, I'm sure you will find the same thing because, when it gets tough, 50 questions are great. When you have three questions and it's one to five stars, all of a sudden every hotel is a four and a half or four-star hotel when it's probably not. It just, it's very difficult. So you have to do more. You know, when I look at Expedia hotels, I filter by guest rankings. Is it ranked wonderful? There's all these little things you can click on the filter because if not, if it's like with Hotel Tonight, if you book a hotel that's under 90 percent approved, you're in a bad place.
Guise Bule: It's not just dog owners, David. Imagine you're disabled. One of my favorite companies, Wheel the World, does nothing but certify, through manual inspection, for disabled friendliness. If you turn up to a hotel and you're disabled in a wheelchair, and they're not as disabled-friendly as they say, you're going to have a bad time. So we're going to see these underserved niches within the travel and hospitality industry being better served by the big OTAs. That's a trend happening right now. Dog-friendly certification is part of it. Disabled-friendly certification is another part. Sustainability certification, too. Consumers want to make better choices where they spend their money. Especially dog owners. Saying you're a dog-friendly hotel without offering real amenities for dogs is like offering a bed without a mattress. It's not just incomplete, it's uncomfortable. Consumers want better. Millennials own more dogs than any other generation in history. They're getting older, they don't have children, they want to travel with their dogs, and we need to be ready as an industry to prepare for this influx of doggy travelers. It's just the way of the world, it's the future.
David Millili: Well, you've given us some great YouTube shorts. Next question: how does transparency, having a dog rating, help the experience for dog owners? Maybe you have some examples outside of yourself, of some guests that have used your service, your rankings, and come back saying, "Wow, this was exactly what was advertised."
Guise Bule: Yeah, it's interesting because when I set out with the Roch Standard, we didn't want to rank anyone lower than a C. We didn't want to be seen badmouthing anyone in the industry. But the truth is, we've realized—and remember, we're a startup too, we're maturing as we grow—that our job isn't just to showcase excellence, but also to tell dog owners where not to go. The problem with the words "pet friendly" and trying to book a pet-friendly hotel on any platform is they can't tell you the difference between a good dog-friendly hotel and a bad one. The only way to do that is to apply a ranking to these hotels and certify dog friendliness in a quantifiable way. It's the only way to do it. And I've just lost track of the question you asked me, but I hope I'm answering it.
David Millili: Yes, you are. Has there been any feedback you've gotten from guests who've said, "Thank you so much. We went, we had a vacation, and because of your ranking, everything was exactly as you said"?
Guise Bule: Actually, quite the opposite, David. I mean, people do say that to me, but the feedback I get is, "Show us the bad hotels so we know where to avoid." Finding the right dog-friendly hotel is about meeting the needs of your dog. And people have different dogs, different-sized dogs. Lots of hotels have different weight limits. It's about knowing this before you book. If you know exactly what to expect before you book a dog-friendly hotel, you're not setting yourself up for a bad time. The hotel's not setting themselves up for conflict with their customer because it's not as friendly as you'd like them to be. So it's all about exactly knowing. Part of this is inventing new language to help us better distinguish between good and bad. For example, "canine tax." I've talked to enough cleaners and interviewed over a hundred of them in my travels over the last decade, because I've been consistently taxed by a "canine tax" when I travel with my dog. I ask the same question: "I'm sorry if my dog's made any extra mess." If they're honest with you, they'll tell you dogs don't make a mess. Unless they chew something up or have diarrhea on the floor, which not many do. It's the humans who make the mess. If you're in good hotels, four or five-star, they'll say the same thing. "Our standards are so high, we clean the room the same way every time, whether a dog stays in it or not." The cleaning fee is not a cleaning fee. Not at 150 a night. So we call that a "canine tax." Again, using that word helps dog owners identify exactly what kind of dog-friendly hotel they are. Another term we've invented is "dog tolerant." Because again, we need to be able to distinguish. We're going to start calling out the low-ranking hotels and labeling them as dog tolerant so dog owners know what to expect before they book. They know where to spend their money and they want to spend it with the hotels that do dog-friendly right.
David Millili: So if I'm a hotelier and my hotel is not pet-friendly, not canine-friendly, what are a couple of things that they could do right off the bat that would really check the boxes? Maybe they're not going to get an A+, but they'll at least get an above-satisfactory grade if they can do a couple of these things.
Guise Bule: I'll give you a gem. I rarely see it, and it's such low-hanging fruit that you wonder why everybody doesn't do it. For god's sake, have some bags of kibble and cans of wet dog food behind reception. You know, the amount of times I've been in a hotel and called down to room service and said, "Have you got anything?" Just bring me a meat plate without the dressing because there's no dog food. Or I've had to run around at night because I've got there late. Have some dog food on the menu. It's worth points in our ranking. It's a low-hanging fruit. It's easy to fix. These things have a long shelf life. You can pull them out when you need them. Have dog food on the menu. It's not a big deal. Do it. It'll make our lives easier as dog owners.
Steve Carran: I love that one. I'm also going to add, have some fake grass around your hotel. I went to a place in Nebraska, and there was no grass. We had to walk downtown and try to find a patch of grass. The closest one was about three, four blocks down the street. So, that's also one thing. If you're going to be pet-friendly, have some grass where they can go to the bathroom.
Guise Bule: Some dogs are funny about it. They need that grass. They won't pee. It's quite common. You're right. Having a dedicated pet space for those quick calls of nature is really convenient. It's about true hospitality. True hospitality means creating a memorable experience for all guests, including our four-legged friends. Anything less is missing the mark. Something as simple as a little bit of grass on the grounds for a dog to use goes a long way. Owners appreciate it.
Steve Carran: I agree. I would have loved one instead of walking a few blocks at midnight to find some grass. But hey, Guise, this has been awesome. We've been asking you the questions this whole time. Now we're going to turn the tables a bit, and you get to ask us a question.
Guise Bule: I've noticed, I've been watching your podcast, and I've noticed you rarely talk about dog-friendly hotels. It rarely comes up in conversation. But the world is changing. More people own dogs than ever. Are you seeing these conversations happening around the hospitality industry more and more?
Steve Carran: Around dog-friendly hotels? I haven't heard it as much. I'm going to be honest. I haven't heard a ton of folks in hospitality talking about being more dog-friendly. We've talked about being sustainable a lot and those trends of being green, and we've talked about experiences, such as hyper-local experiences in hotels. But you're the first person we've had on, and this is our third season, who has talked about it. I'm hoping this starts more conversations, and from here on, we hear more about it.
Guise Bule: I hope so too.
David Millili: What I've seen is that it's tough. Steve and I sell into hotels, mostly independent hotels in our careers. I ran independent hotels. Hotels are slow to change, and that's not necessarily a negative. They're still trying to figure out how to take care of their own guests. As you were talking, I was even taking down notes, like in the booking process, the guest who books a pet-friendly room should be able to put the pet's name, weight, breed, or even a food preference. Or even pick certain amenities they might want in the room, like a separate bed for the dog. Hotels are trying to do that now with more wellness options: do you want a Peloton bike in the room? Or weights? Or something else? Steve's right. Pet-friendly isn't a big topic in our industry right now, which is kind of kudos to you for grabbing it and taking it, you know, taking the bull by the horns. Not a big topic, but it should be. And you're right. I'm a dog guy, but my son wanted a cat, and then my wife got a second cat. Now I've got this cat that loves me and follows me around. When I finish the podcast, she'll be right outside the door waiting because she wants to be in this room. People, like you said, love their animals like they love their kids. It's amazing.
Guise Bule: Yeah, I was going to say, why aren't more people talking about TripAdvisor sending dog owners to bad hotels? No one talks about it. Maybe the emperor has no clothes, and everyone's too worried to mention it. People need to have these conversations because it's the future of hospitality. It's inclusivity, and that includes dog owners.
David Millili: You're doing something smart. Sometimes you have to help the hoteliers think through the process, not just tell them what the problem is. You have to say, "Hey, this cleaning fee is unnecessary. If you need to charge an extra 20 per night for a dog-friendly room, do it. That's more acceptable. If I were going with my dog and it was like, 'Oh, I'm getting a pet-friendly room for 20 or 25 more,' I'd get it. I'm guaranteed a great experience." But just like a resort fee, when you get to the final booking and there's a $40 resort fee that basically tells you you can make free calls and get a bottle of water, you're like, "Really? Just put it in the rate. Don't try to trick me."
Guise Bule: Well, the Kimptons do that. They're among the most dog-friendly hotel groups, and dogs stay for free at Kimptons. But our number one, InterContinental, charges $100 per stay, which we found reasonable because of the high level of services, amenities, dog walking facilities, and social vibe. It's a fashion. You don't mind paying a small fee if you're receiving a lot in return. Some of the most dog-friendly hotels, like the State Pineapple Group in the U.S., charge a very small fee compared to the rest of the industry. But sometimes a fee is necessary to cover the cost of those extra services or amenities you're offering your customers as guests. It's just the way it is.
Steve Carran: You bet. And I have one more question. David just confessed he's a cat guy, and I've said multiple times that I have cats and travel with them. Are you going to expand Roch to look into cats? Cat-friendly or feline-friendly hotels?
Guise Bule: Never, never. Here's the thing: Roch, St. Roch, is the patron saint of dogs. We're named after the patron saint of dogs. That's number one. Secondly, let's talk about the term "pet-friendly" for a second. If you don't mind me saying so, it's misleading. It doesn't mean anything. People don't travel with their fish, ferrets, or horses. If they did, the hotel wouldn't let them in. 99.9 percent of travelers are traveling with their dogs. That's just the way of the world. So we're all about moving away from pet-friendly toward great dog-friendly. That's what we're about.
Steve Carran: Wonderful, wonderful. Because there's nothing more frustrating than calling a hotel that's pet-friendly and finding out they don't accept cats when I'm traveling with my cat. It's like, well, you're not really pet-friendly; you're just dog-friendly, so you should say that on your website.
Guise Bule: You've got a point.
David Millili: You might have people dressing up their cats like dogs to sneak in. That's probably the next phase, the next evolution of that travel.
Steve Carran: We've tried that phase already, and it's worked a few times. Just don't mind the meowing.
Guise Bule: But you guys are professionals, right? I mean, I'm not from the industry. My background isn't. Call me crazy, but isn't part of the guest experience about managing their expectations properly? When you don't manage their expectations properly, if there's a disconnect, it causes conflict with the customer. Don't do that with pets. Because, you know, pets are family members. Family members deserve good hospitality. They do. It's one of the worst places to pick a fight with a guest—over a pet. "Your dog's too big," "it's not," "it's small"—I don't know, I'm sorry, I can go on and on.
Steve Carran: No, that's great. So our producer, Jon, has been listening this whole time. We're going to hand it over to him for the last question of the show.
Jon Bumhoffer: It seems like the biggest issue is not that every hotel needs to be dog-friendly. It's more about transparency, like you mentioned, or setting expectations. But I'm curious, have you encountered any pushback when doing this? What kind of pushback from hotels that say they're pet-friendly or dog-friendly but maybe really aren't? How does that usually play out?
Guise Bule: Yes, interestingly, the biggest pushback comes from some of the nicest hotels that pride themselves on the awards they've won for their hospitality. These are hotels that typically employ PR teams, marketing teams, and they're very proactive about the way they present themselves. They push back the most because they're often found lacking, and they know it. They're determined not to answer all your questions. Imagine that. This is like we're trying to get secret information out of them. They put the phone down, so we have to call them three or four times at different times of the day and week to catch different staff members to ask the same questions. To confirm the certification. We always get them, Jon, because this isn't proprietary information that they should be keeping secret from their guests. But they know. Then we get furious emails from their marketing directors. "I do not want to participate." I tell them, "Welcome to the new world. You can't hide behind the words dog-friendly anymore and deliver anything short of being friendly." You can't be dog-tolerant and call yourself dog-friendly. What are they going to do? I'm on a mission to rank and certify every dog-friendly hotel on the planet. You can't hide from my rankings. This is the world we live in now. You have to do it properly or not at all. That's fine. 30 percent of the hotels in America are not dog-friendly. They're entitled to make that business decision. But we live in a new world now where you can't hide behind the words dog-friendly because they have meaning all of a sudden. Does that answer your question, Jon?
David Millili: Thank you so much. That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. This is where, Guise, we let you plug away, Roch, how people can find out more about the company, get hotel rankings, and connect with you.
Guise Bule: You don't need to worry about finding the world's best hotels. I've done that for you. I've certified them, my team and I have ranked them, and you can find them on rochdog.com That's where you find the world's best dog-friendly hotels, ranked by region. You know exactly what to expect before you book, and you know where to spend your money.
David Millili: That does it for another episode of The Modern Hotelier. Whether you're listening or watching, we appreciate you, and we will see you again soon.
Guise Bule: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
David Millili: Take care.